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Topic ClosedPushing The Limits On Tow Vehicles
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pushing The Limits On Tow Vehicles
    Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 11:32am
Originally posted by NWRPodder

It's sounding more like I should just push it a little more on the hills as needed to get me by for now and eventually I will upgrade to something else that is a little newer or beefier.




That is what I would do. As others have mentioned, short excursions into the 3K RPM range should be fine. My 5.3L V8 will do so if the conditions are right, however, I would not want to do a LOT of living above that range.

If your vehicle does not have a "tow/haul" mode, you may want to tow with the transmission in the next lower gear - below "Drive". The transmission will "hunt" less, it will keep your RPMs a little higher, and keep your transmission fluid cooler.

If you do decide on a transmission cooler, they are rather inexpensive and easy to install, if you are handy with tools.
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Posts: 18 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 8:57am
Thank you JHoffman and techntrek, that feedback is really good and appreciated.

I might look into getting a tranny temp gauge installed before doing real long trips with many hills. I have seen mixed comments elsewhere about a tranny cooling system but seems like the best approach is a gauge to simply monitor it.

I didn't even think of the type of fuel. I normally just get regular unleaded. I will spring for premium or plus next time and see what that does. I would rather pay a little extra at the pump for a little better performance when pulling. Good advice.
2016 R178
2007 Ford Expedition V8 5.4L
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Posts: 9062 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 8:57pm
Push it.  Higher RPMs won't hurt, and as mentioned it will get you deeper into the power curve.  

Something I didn't see mentioned - always use high-octane gas when towing.  The computer will adjust timing, valves, ignition (various combinations of that depending on manufacturer) to give you the highest power output possible.  Lower octane detonates easier so the computer has to dial things back to prevent that so you don't get as much power output (even though ironically lower octane gas actually has more energy).

More speeds in the tranny don't provide more power at highway speeds.  For instance the GM 4, 6, and 8 speed trannys have almost the same gear ratio in the overdrive (highest) gears, and the middle gears aren't much different.  The difference is the 6 and 8 speed versions have much lower gearing in 1st and 2nd for more torque off the line - plus it allows them to put a more-efficient lower gear in the rear.  So the overall ratio is more efficient on the highway but provides more torque when the light turns green.

GM 4L-60
1234R
3.0591.6251.0000.6962.29
6L-80
123456R
4.0272.3641.5321.1520.8520.6673.064

8L-90
12345678R
4.562.972.081.691.271.000.850.653.82
Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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Posts: 82 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 8:49pm
NWRPodder, first welcome to the group. Im new this year myself.  One thing I would caution you on is to watch the temp gauge when climbing the hills. Short runs at high RPM are usually ok but prolonged high revs will overheat the engine.  Also it's a good idea to have a way to monitor transmission temps.  My Tundra has a tranny temp gauge from the factory.  I have the 5.7L and I used to set the cruse at 70 and never change it.  Occasionally it would shift down and rev a little over 3000. I've discovered that if I just use a steady foot on the accelerator and allow the speed to drop off just a little on the hills I can get much better MPG's.  My truck has a 10k towing capacity but it's not the weight that makes the vehicle struggle so much as it is the amount of drag it now has to overcome.  The front of the camper is like pulling a big sail behind you.  A 3000 lb pop-up tows much easer then a 3000 lb Pod simply because it's a much lower profile.  Your 4Runner is bigger then what many people on this forum are using, it will do it, just take your time. 
2016 176t Rpod the "Hoffpod"
2010 Toyota Tundra 5.7L
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Posts: 18 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 6:10pm
Q7-retired you make a good point about diesel vs gasoline engines.

As for my 4Runner the reason I bought it a few years back was because the low miles. It may be 13 years old but has only 120k miles now. I had a 4Runner before go easy over 200k. Of course this was before I towed anything like this and maybe over 100k is getting 'old' to be optimal shape for a vehicle to be a TV.

It's sounding more like I should just push it a little more on the hills as needed to get me by for now and eventually I will upgrade to something else that is a little newer or beefier.
2016 R178
2007 Ford Expedition V8 5.4L
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Posts: 100 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 5:32pm
Let's not forget the difference between diesel and gasoline engines.  Diesels produce their max torque at much lower RPMs than do gasoline engines, and have a much flatter torque curve (their torque is roughly the same at all RPMs, and yes, I know that's a broad statement).  Gasoline engines must rev up much higher to produce their max torque, and their torque curve is much more rounded/ peaked.

Also, diesel engines produce more torque than similarly sized gasoline engines.  Power = torque times RPM times some constants, so you can see that a higher torque capability means lower RPM at same power levels.  Your 4Runner is spec'd at 245 horsepower @ 5,200 RPM and 283 pound-feet of torque @ 3,400 RPM.  The new Dodge Ram or Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.0 liter diesel produce 420 lb-ft @ 2,000 RPM and 240 hp @ 3,600 RPM.  Note the torque difference and the closer RPMs on the diesel.

It makes sense to me that you must rev up your engine to climb hills.  You have to get to the peak torque point on the curve.  

Other things to consider might be valve blow-by or ignition issues that keep your engine from producing its max power.  After all, it is 13 years old -- how many miles on the engine?  Those other folks might be driving TV with diesel engines or have newer engines with less wear.  For comparison, I tow my 2015 RP178 at 60mph max.  I slow down going up steep grades to limit RPM excursions on the engine.  
Best regards, Jim
2015-RP178
TV 2015 Audi Q7 TDI and 2017 Ford F150
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Posts: 18 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 4:02pm
For TheBum... it sounds like the Highlander is working out well. What kind of RPMs are at when climbing these hills?

For fwunder it seems you have a very similar setup to mine and you re traveling ALL over! The only thing I can think of is your 4Runner is 5 speed and mine is 4 speed. Doesn't seem that would make a big difference. I must be overly cautious on how much I am pushing it on the hills.

Thanks for all the comments. It's very helpful.
2016 R178
2007 Ford Expedition V8 5.4L
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 12:18pm


To paraphrase (or maybe quote) one our members:
"Nobody has ever complained about having too much power....NOBODY."

This is true.

With the possible exception of these folks:

way too fast


Sorry...I couldn't resist
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Posts: 1407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 10:46am
We pull our 179 with a 2012 Highlander with a 3.5L V6 and towing package, and it will handle grades up to 8% without much trouble. We took a trip to central WV this spring and the TV was able to maintain the speed limit on every grade except two 8-9% grades. Even then, it did pretty well.
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Posts: 613 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 10:42am
Those folks behind will just have to get over it.  they don't own the road.  But -- one should not be afraid to use a turn out to let the folks go by.
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