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Topic ClosedVampires and multimeters

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pgoelz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Vampires and multimeters
    Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by GLBCamper

But when camping, the only thing I am adding is running the fridge (mine does not have 12v function), running the water pump for maybe a total of 5 minutes and turning on one LED light for maybe a total of 10 minutes and I will go from 12.6 to 12.0 by the next morning. None of those things seem like a HUGE draw.

So I guess that narrows it down a bit, but I'm not sure what to do next.
Well, them SOMETHING you do while camping is the culprit.... or the batteries have much less capacity than you think they do.  Without better instrumentation and data, there is no accurate way to tell.  

But some possibilities I can think of would be:

1.  Water pump firing intermittently all night.  

2.  One or more lights is NOT an LED and is on and drawing more power than expected.  For example, all interior lighting in our 2014 171 is LED.  However, our porch light and trailer hitch lights are incandescent.  

3.  Brakes engaged?  Feel the drums after a while and see if they are warm.  

4.  Faulty converter, drawing power when not charging.  

5.  Vent fan running and drawing lots of power.  

6.  Refer drawing more power than expected.... like either defective or running a mullion heater or defroster (just guessing).  

7.  Trailer plugged into the tow vehicle and powering something unexpected in the TV.  

Draining 200+ AH of battery from 12.8 to 12.0 overnight is a LOT of power.... if the batteries are healthy.  That would be a 10-20 amp discharge and more than ANY single device in an Rpod should draw.  But as was said earlier, if you can't identify the culprit you MUST measure the steady state drain directly from the battery in "camping" mode or you will never know what is going on.  

Paul
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 12:45pm
In my driveway (so not camping) I am am fully charging the batteries by plugging into 30A shore power for several days.

Then I disconnect shore power and am checking the batteries on the battery terminals without the solar panel hooked up and bypass is PULLED. I check it everyday at the same time using a multimeter. It shows around 12.85 first day, 12.83 second day, 12.80 third, etc. as expected.

Then I put the bypass back in and get a slightly quicker drop (again, as expected) due to my identified parasitic loads.

But when camping, the only thing I am adding is running the fridge (mine does not have 12v function), running the water pump for maybe a total of 5 minutes and turning on one LED light for maybe a total of 10 minutes and I will go from 12.6 to 12.0 by the next morning. None of those things seem like a HUGE draw.

So I guess that narrows it down a bit, but I'm not sure what to do next.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 11:21am
Originally posted by spydie

Consider using two 12v batteries in parallel which doubles your camping time. Doubles your amp hours. Two six volt batteries in series only doubles your voltage. No gain in amp hours. As an alternative you are going to have track down the culprit draw

Two 12V batteries are not necessarily any better. Most 6V batteries used are 220AH GC2s. Together they provide 12V at 220AH. The usual 12V battery is a Gp24 with about 86AH so a pair would provide 12V at 172AH, which is significantly less than the two GC2s. That said it still seems the OP has a significant constant load on his batteries. The only way to confirm this is to put the ammeter in series right at the battery terminal or use a clamp on ammeter around all wires right at the battery terminal. This means all connections including the load distribution (fuse) panel, solar panels, breakaway brakes, and power tongue jack if applicable. If a significant load is confirmed the isolation and troubleshooting process can begin. If no significant load is found it points to the battery or charging system.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 10:58am
+1 Paul
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 10:56am
Unless you have an intermittent heavy draw that you have not yet observed, it HAS to be the batteries.  It is either or.  

Is the refer on battery power and you don't know it?  

Is the water pump activating periodically due to a leak somewhere?

Are the brakes on?  I had not actually thought of that one, but if the breakaway pin got pulled....

Are you absolutely POSITIVE you are measuring the total battery current?  

Try installing a 12V wattmeter as a temporary monitoring device and see if the total discharge power makes sense.  See this (sorry, can't get the danged embedded link function to work on this site so here's the full link):

https://www.amazon.com/Power-Analyzer-JZCreater-Backlight-Precision/dp/B01LVTST80/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502207485&sr=8-1&keywords=dc+watt+meter

Put it directly inline with the battery.  Either you ARE drawing a lot more current than you think, the batteries are bad or they are not at the state of charge you think they are.  And I just realized that you are (I think) measuring the current across each fuse position when the fuse is pulled?  That may miss things like parasitic currents in the converter if it has an issue.  Or any other potential loads that are not fused (like a defective solar controller).  And don't get confused about the state of charge on your batteries.  Measure with a voltmeter on the batteries when the solar system is NOT charging.  The Renogy controller that I have displays state of charge but is only accurate while charging (it is the way it is calibrated).  The battery meter in the camper is only accurate when the battery is NOT being charged.  You may not be as charged as you think you are.  

Paul
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 10:46am
Please don't take tjis as an insult.  I don't know how much you know about measuring current draw.  If using a conventional meter you must have the measuring device (meter or appropriate shunt)in series with the load.  IOW you need to open the line to the load and insert the meter to get a reading.  Clamp on ammeters are different, you put the jaws around the feed wire.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 10:20am
That heavy draw would show up in his tests. I know the batteries have been checked by someone you trust. But all indications point to bad batteries
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 10:16am
A one or two watt parasitic load will not drain your battery in 24 hours. If you're using the 225 AH batteries that others are using, you have approximately 2,700 watt-hours of capacity. It would take quite a while if you're draining at 24 watts per day (or even 50 watts per day).

So you have something that is pulling around 20, 40, or 80 watts (at least a few amps, not a few tenths of an amp).

I suspect that your brakes are engaged or something like that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 10:12am
Consider using two 12v batteries in parallel which doubles your camping time. Doubles your amp hours. Two six volt batteries in series only doubles your voltage. No gain in amp hours. As an alternative you are going to have track down the culprit draw
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 10:04am
Thanks for the replies. The antenna is drawing 0.11 with the switch OFF. Still it sounds like all of my parasitic loads that I've found so far are not my issue because I can go from a 12.6 to 12.0 in less then 24 hours while boondocking. 

I have two 6v batteries in series AND a 100w Renogy solar suitcase that is often in direct sunlight for 6-8 hours.The batteries are only a year old and were recently tested by a reputable service center in great condition. I have a battery bypass and they will hold a 12.8+ charge for weeks when bypassed, so they're good.

It's something in the trailer and it's frustrating because it's turned into an expensive tent since I don't dare even turn on an LED light while boondocking, which is 90% of my camping.

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