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P-pod for dry camping?
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: P-pod for dry camping?
    Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 11:12am
Originally posted by MarkW



It's just not wanting or needing to go through the hassle when I already have perfectly good data to start with.  The only concern is what is loaded into the TV and trailer and that will vary somewhat from trip to trip.  But I can track and (if necessary weigh) added gear and supplies without going out to find truck scales and I'm certainly not going to hit the truck scales before every trip (though I will check the tongue weights).  I have the weight of the TT as it left the factory down to the lb.  I can work from that baseline.</span>


It's overconfidence in inadequate data then, combined with not wanting to put out the minimal effort involved in driving over to the scales, that clears things up.

My perspective, not yours. Feel free to do as you like, as I am free to disagree with you.

But please don't attempt to troll me by suggesting that I think it's necessary to weigh before every trip, including tongue weight. No one has said anything of the sort.

As podwerkz said, this is starting to become a pattern. Good luck to you.
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Posts: 2595 		Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 10:41am
MarkW, if that's what the data plate says, then you are certainly entitled to rely on it.  It's just not real common to see dry weight include propane.  You state that you don't want to weigh your TT & TV with each trip.  I don't believe anyone is suggesting that you need to weigh for each trip.  What has been suggested is that you do a typical loading of the TT and TV and weigh it to establish a baseline weight.  For each trip, you just need to keep track of variations from your baseline, but that doesn't mean you have to go to a vehicle scale to do it.  I still don't get why it is so problematical to to a public scale one time with a typical load to get your baseline weight.  It may turn out to be exactly what your calculated weight is, but what's the harm in being sure when it comes to safety of you family and those sharing the road with you?

Pod-Geek, I got payload capacity from a trailer loading site.  I agree with you, that payload should also include everything you put inside the cab, particularly with cabs that are extended and have a lot of cargo room inside.  In our truck, for example, I have about 45 cubic feet of cargo space behind the front passenger area that we can fill with additional stuff that should be counted in the payload.
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Posts: 261 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pod_Geek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 10:20am
Originally posted by lostagain

...
  • Payload Capacity - For Trucks the amount of weight you can safely add to the bed of the truck. Your Fifth Wheels Hitch Weight or Pin Weight plus the actual weight of hitch plus any other accessories you have in the bed of the truck must not exceed the Payload Capacity amount. Confirm Payload Capacity with your vehicle’s manufacturer....
I thought truck Payload includes passengers and other miscellaneous junk (in our case coolers etc.) that might be in the cab, not just the truck bed.
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Posts: 54 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MarkW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 9:20am
MarkW's comment that his data plate sticker on his trailer includes two "full" propane tanks seems inconsistent with other trailer data plates. 

If you insist:
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Posts: 54 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MarkW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 9:08am
Not sure if it's overconfidence, intransigence, or just not wanting to get up off the couch and away from the keyboard

It's just not wanting or needing to go through the hassle when I already have perfectly good data to start with.  The only concern is what is loaded into the TV and trailer and that will vary somewhat from trip to trip.  But I can track and (if necessary weigh) added gear and supplies without going out to find truck scales and I'm certainly not going to hit the truck scales before every trip (though I will check the tongue weights).  I have the weight of the TT as it left the factory down to the lb.  I can work from that baseline.
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lostagain View Drop Down
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Posts: 2595 		Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 8:52am
I don't understand what the problem is in taking the TV and TT to fully loaded to a scale and weighing it, then plugging the numbers into a TV/TT weight and balance calculator to see if it is in the "green zone."  Yes one can be stupendously meticulous in reading the data plates, labels, and owner's manuals, but that does not give you a real world answer.  Trailer towing experience does count, but there are things going on that are not readily visible, such as metal fatigue or a transmission on the brink of failure, that work "until they don't."  

MarkW's comment that his data plate sticker on his trailer includes two "full" propane tanks seems inconsistent with other trailer data plates.  Most data plates on newer trailers, at least if they are to comply with Canadian standards, calculate the "dry weight" as the base trailer with no battery, empty propane tanks, and a full fresh water tank.  I'm not saying he's not correct in his observation, but it's odd and doesn't seem to be consistent with other FR data plates.  Given the apparent inconsistency with industry practice, mitigates in favor of loading the trailer and TV with what would normally be taken on a trip and weighing it.  

Here are some handy terms when discussing weight:

Terms & Definitions

  • Dry Weight/Shipped Weight - The weight of the RV as shipped from the manufacturer without any passengers, cargo, liquids, or additional accessories or dealer installed options.
  • Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) - The current combined weight of the RV (dry weight) plus passengers, cargo, and liquids.
  • Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) - The maximum allowed weight of an Vehicle/RV, including passengers, cargo, fluids, etc..
  • Cargo Weight - The total weight of all passengers, food, clothing, liquids, accessories, etc.. that you might put into your RV.
  • Tongue/Hitch Weight - The weight/pressure applied from the trailer tongue/coupler to the conventional/bumper hitch on your vehicle.
  • Pin Weight - This is often referred to as the weight/pressure applied from fifth wheel king pin to the hitch in the bed of your truck.
  • Payload Capacity - For Trucks the amount of weight you can safely add to the bed of the truck. Your Fifth Wheels Hitch Weight or Pin Weight plus the actual weight of hitch plus any other accessories you have in the bed of the truck must not exceed the Payload Capacity amount. Confirm Payload Capacity with your vehicle’s manufacturer.
  • Max Towing Capacity - The maximum weight limit that can safely be towed by your specific vehicle. This weight is calculated by adding the RV’s GVW with weight of all passengers, cargo, and liquids in your tow vehicle.

If, after weighing the fully loaded trailer and TV, one is safely within the "Max Towing Capacity" limits of the TV, then go for it.  But that being said, don't whine if you "push the limits" of your TV and stuff starts to go wrong even if you are just inside the theoretical Max Towing Capacity.
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Posts: 5290 		Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 8:06am
Originally posted by Dirt Sifter

I am beginning to think that some old forum folks don't want to be shown up and have to admit defeat by a well read and meticulous young guy who has researched his vehicles and knows from experience what's what.


Nope in my case. It's the careful homework that's missing that I'm looking for. That includes getting actual weights when one has a marginal rig.

Not sure if it's overconfidence, intransigence, or just not wanting to get up off the couch and away from the keyboard but Mark can of course do whatever he wants, it's his decision.

It's just not going to be convincing to me and others here who have found that their real world weights are not necessarily what they expected.

Irt's pretty obvious that no amount of further data free discussion is going to change anyone's mind at this point. So I do agree that it's time to move on.
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Posts: 54 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MarkW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 7:43am

I said sooner or later your front tires will slip and lose traction. Until then it WILL work. 

Obviously there are situations you could get into where a tow vehicle lacks the traction to move the trailer -- that's true of both 2WD and AWD vehicles, though of course it's harder to get an AWD vehicle stuck.  We once nearly couldn't get out of a wet grassy field driving a rented Fiat motorhome in Iceland where there was almost no slope at all, but the tires also had almost no tread (go to Iceland for jaw-dropping scenery but definitely not for the RV rental bargains).

That said, I don't think the limiting factor for where we can get the TT will be traction as much as general road conditions and ground clearance (I worry particularly about some of the crossings of dry washes on dirt roads out west).  I thought about a lift kit, but instead picked up a set of 'savajack' brackets which I haven't yet installed.  They seem like such an obvious idea, that I'm not sure why they're not more popular.

But we've already scouted a lot of the places we'd like to get back to someday with the TT through  years of flying and tent camping, and we've talked about where we could and maybe couldn't take the trailer.  To our favorite back-country campsite in Big Bend at the start of the thread?  Not sure.  To the place off a rough gravel road in Death Valley below? Probably OK.  But most places we'd like to hit again would be just fine.  When we do take a long trip westward, we'll probably switch to our Subaru Outback  (also with a 3500# rating), just to enable more exploring during the days when the trailer is not connected, but that can be it's own 'why that's a really bad idea' thread sometime later.
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Posts: 1014 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Olddawgsrule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 7:06am
Originally posted by podwerkz

FWD vehicles are not really designed to be tow vehicles. Sooner or later, this will become obvious. 

?? Personal opinion?? I'm researching a ProMaster with 'Tow Package', please do tell me why this is. Probably better to PM me than pollute the tread. 
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Posts: 966 		Post Options Post Options   Quote podwerkz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by MarkW

That's funny -- the exact 'why this won't work' prediction on the sailboat forums was that we'd get stuck on steep boat ramps with FWD.  


I never said it wont work. I said sooner or later your front tires will slip and lose traction. Until then it WILL work. 

If you are going to misquote me, you begin to lose credibility. But that is your repeating pattern here. You only see what you want to see. Hey if it works for you, then go for it.
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