Black tank fell from r-pod
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Category: R-pod Discussion Forums
Forum Name: Podmods, Maintenance, Tips and Tricks
Forum Discription: Ask maintenance questions, share your podmods (modifications) and helpful tips
URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7558
Printed Date: 02 May 2024 at 8:01am
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Topic: Black tank fell from r-pod
Posted By: TimandDiana
Subject: Black tank fell from r-pod
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 5:15pm
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Hello! My wife and I are relatively new r-podders: 2016 Toyota Tacoma SR5 V6 pulling a 2015 Hood River Edition 178. This is our second season touring parks with it, and we love it! On the road right now; just entered Zion. But 2 days ago, on the freeway between Tuscon and Phoenix, the black tank literally fell away from the lower frame supports and dragged along over the pavement. It was only held between the two wheels by the bracket that holds the waste dump connection, and the cold water pex line on the opposite side that is used to hose down the inside of the tank. The tank was essentially empty during travel. Let me say that it wasn't all that obvious what was happening. The only thing that tipped me off was a very faint low harmonic noise coming from somewhere. I first thought it was the roadway and even switched lanes since the right slower lane was much rougher. Finally I pulled over and to my dismay found the tank sitting on the ground. It looked completely intact other than the trailing edge which had opened a seam where it had dragged on the roadway. The two plumbing connections on the top of the tank had severed cleanly. So, I'm 4 months over the one year comprehensive warranty period and it looks like I'm getting an estimate from my R-pod service department for around $750 to $1000 to purchase and install a new black tank. Forest River warranty folks look like they are not going to budge and give me a break on this one. Bummer! So, I have two questions for all of you out there. First, have any of you had similar experiences with this model or another? The second and perhaps even more relevant question relates to this installation. The black tank on this model, and I assume a number of others as well, is supported in place with two horizontal steel frames that span the width of the R-pod. The front, less sturdy horizontal frame, has two welded 2-3 inch brackets on each end of the frame that machine screw to the main R-pod frame. There are 4 places for screws to go into the frame. Mine was installed with only 2 screws and on one side it looks like only one screw was used and that sheared off most likely prior to the tank coming loose. Does your installation have 2 screws or four on each side? This info might help in any further negotiations with Forest River. I guess I can count myself fortunate that the tank hadn't completely broken loose and caused a serious accident. Thanks for reading this and for any comments or advice you have! |
Replies:
Posted By: cactus
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 5:29pm
| Good luck. I think you should consider going to top management since it sounds as though your tank was installed improperly. Hate highway 10 between Tucson and Phoenix. Tom's Camperland is in Phoenix. |
Posted By: Planetwister
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 8:05pm
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Wow! that is unacceptable. Forest River should be covering the cost. I will be sure to crawl under mine and check everything under there ------------- GLORY TO GOD 2016 178 Hood River 2004 F150 |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 8:34pm
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This is a known and documented problem with the tank mounting on Pods. http://rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5036&KW=tank&PN=1&title=water-tank-beam - http://rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5036&KW=tank&PN=1&title=water-tank-beam Poor installation. Haven't heard of instances in a while, but apparently there is still a problem lurking out there. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: funks
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2016 at 12:38am
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Your not the only one with that problem. I have a 179 and I had to remove the small screws on the one side of the bracket holding the tanks and shim them with 14 ga. steel. I replaced the small screws with larger screws. I hope every owner takes the time to get under the pod and check it out. Good luck with your repair.
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Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2016 at 8:36am
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Thanks for the heads-up. I'll be checking our 179 shortly. I hope Forest River does cover this as it is evidently an engineering defect to use such a weak method to mount something. Depending on how many people have had this happen, to ignore it might be inviting a class-action lawsuit. At the very least, has it been reported to the NHTSA? http://www.nhtsa.gov/Vehicle+Safety - http://www.nhtsa.gov/Vehicle+Safety ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2016 at 9:23am
Well, the problem does not seem to be only in older models. Mine is a 2016 179. I intend to contact Forest River to see what they say about this. Mine is still under warranty. I hope they will fix this shoddy work. I appreciate the warning to check. I also noticed significant rust spots on the frame that I will be touching up before taking it out again. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: Leo B
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2016 at 9:38am
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If it is still under warranty, I would bring it back to the dealership first. Complaint to them about it, they should contact Forrest River for you to see if it can be repaired under warranty. The dealership might also just fix it, to protect their reputation.
------------- Leo & Melissa Bachand 2017 Ford F150 2021 Vista Cruiser 19 csk Previously owned 2015 Rpod 179 2010 Rpod 171 |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2016 at 9:40am
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If you get FR's OK to have a dealer repair your Pod I caution you to understand the underlying problem and carefully checkout the fix. Keep in mind a full tank can weigh in excess of 250 pounds while you're bouncing down the highway. The alignment of the brackets must be corrected, all welds checked, all gaps fully filled, and larger screws installed. Many dealers will just apply the fastest, cheapest bandaid and declare victory. You'll only get one shot at a warranty fix.
------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2016 at 9:50am
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If I lived near the dealer, I would be taking it there today. I have to drive about 2 hours to get there. I will be traveling quite a bit this spring and summer. I would not want to have the same thing happen while we are on the road.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2016 at 10:12am
Stephen, I understand the dealer accessibility problem; I had the same situation. From your picture it looks like the bracket is not square with the frame. You cannot fix that with washers. If it were me I would remove the whole support and check for squareness. If the support is square and the welds look good I would remount the support in new holes (both ends) with #14 sheetmetal screws. If necessary fill gaps with large washers or flat metal stock. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: Commander203
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2016 at 11:00am
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Doing my spring prep checks in preparation for the first trip. Just added this check to my list. I'll continue with this preparation project next week as we've had so much rain I'd have to swim underneath the POD to check it. Thanks to all on the forum for helping us avoid potential disaster. ------------- Mike & Erin 2013 Tundra 4.6L V8 (Tow PK) 2006 Honda Goldwing GL 1800 2005 Honda VTX 1800N |
Posted By: J&Jcf
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2016 at 11:38am
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You would think fr corrected this problem that has been identified years ago.l think it first showed up in 2010 models. I corrected mine on my 2011. It is like they made the bracket to short and mounted it any. I installed washers on each side and used larger screws. I checked all the bracket's holding fresh water tank & holding tanks. Obviously all owners (new or used) need to check these bracket's for proper installation. Especially if you still are under warranty. ------------- J. - 2011 rpod 171 |
Posted By: Planetwister
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2016 at 11:43am
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I just picked up my 178 Thursday, but I'm sure not going to take it to the dealer for a shotty washer and new screw job. I will be making new brackets and using actual bolts. I'm shocked they haven't come out with a recall, or at least fixed the issue on new trailers. Doesn't look good on Forest River's part ------------- GLORY TO GOD 2016 178 Hood River 2004 F150 |
Posted By: cactus
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2016 at 5:11pm
| My brand new 170 also has significant amount of rust. Shoddy workmanship. |
Posted By: TimandDiana
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2016 at 4:33pm
| Thanks to all who replied. Some really useful information here. Will keep you posted with how things work out with warranty issue. |
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2016 at 5:10pm
A.. there isn't a "170" B.. rust happens. Surface rust can happen in seconds. Deep damaging rust takes YEARS to be an issue in most of the country.. decades where you live.. Hit it with some rustoleum and call it good. C.. maintaining an RV of any type will involve some work. ------------- |
Posted By: Jpntime
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2016 at 8:03pm
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Yeah mine had about a quarter inch gap between the frame and the brace ------------- Love to camp 2014 171 |
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2016 at 8:17pm
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After work tomorrow I will have to go on the back 20 and take a peek underneath to make certain I don't have this problem. Now that the snow is nearly gone, yeah !!! Thanks for the warning/updates/info everyone on this.
------------- God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
Posted By: frogpod
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2016 at 9:12pm
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I was lucky enough to find the thread shown above before one of the tanks fell off our pod. I knew it was going to happen for sure once I crawled under the Pod and looked at it. Once the new tank is installed and the problem is "fixed" you will want to add bolts on each bracket through the center of the frame for each of the three tanks. Good as new from FR will still have the tanks ready to fall off. In addition to the replacing the screws/adding a bolt, you also may need to add shims. ------------- Leo and Tami with Coltrane the Jack Russell Terrier 2010 Rpod 171 2003 Toyota Tacoma TRD |
Posted By: ToolmanJohn
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2016 at 8:23am
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Thanks for the good info. I'll be under the R-Pod in a couple weeks to inspect before camping starts for me. I'll bracket the tanks more with stainless strapping if I see any issues. ------------- 2017 ATC 7X20 Custom Toy Hauler 2013 R-Pod 177 (SOLD) 2013 VW Touareg TDI |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2016 at 12:14pm
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I contacted Forest River and received a reply to have the dealer inspect it. If it is a manufacturing defect (if?), Forest River would cover it. Mine is still under warranty, but this is something that probably needs a recall to inspect and fix all units. I'm sure the NHTSA would not look too kindly on tanks, whether fresh, gray, or black, falling off and potentially causing accidents.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: WalksInDarkness
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2016 at 2:24pm
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The fact that this defect still exists is baffling to me. The tooling cost to create an improved bracket, and improve fixturing while assembling, is chump change compared to what they must already have paid out in warranty repairs. I am a mechanical engineer, and the costs to FR would be less than their most expensive R-Pod. They may want to fix this, or increase their insurance coverage, because ignoring a known defect so long can cost them millions if someone gets killed on the highway. When I was designing textile equipment, we called this mindset "tombstone technology" - so many companies refuse to fix flaws until some dies. ------------- |
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2016 at 7:29pm
Just got back from taking a look under our 177 and we are good to go as far as the tanks/supports are concerned. Everything lines up well and well supported on all sides on all 3 tanks. Ours was built in January 2011 and we took delivery in March. Glad I looked under it as there is some rust that needs to be taken care of (Michigan winters and salt . . .go figure) so I will take furpods advice (that is always good advice!) do some scraping and sanding and then some rustoleum. Think I will keep it the original color (black), don't want to void my lifetime warranty
 ------------- God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2016 at 8:40pm
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My wife and I will be taking our R-Pod to the dealer's on Thursday. We hope to have it back within a week as we have trips already planned for April for which we have already made a paid reservation. We need time to pack. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2016 at 8:52pm
If it takes a week to pack you're taking too much.  ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: frogpod
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2016 at 9:08pm
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The tank brackets on mine looked OK and all seemed to fit. After looking closer, half the screws were missing and some of the ones still present were sheared off. The screws are very small self tapping screws....the same ones used on supporting a plastic wiring harness support. At minimum, bigger screws are needed in all the holes. Better yet, add one actual bolt through each bracket. Not difficult to do. The brackets are structural components and the design relying on a few dinky screws is beyond terrible.
------------- Leo and Tami with Coltrane the Jack Russell Terrier 2010 Rpod 171 2003 Toyota Tacoma TRD |
Posted By: Planetwister
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2016 at 9:15pm
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I agree Frogpod, I cant believe they use regular self tapping screws instead of bolts and nuts. Very poor job by FR ------------- GLORY TO GOD 2016 178 Hood River 2004 F150 |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2016 at 9:18pm
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I appreciate that Country Roads RV Center in Lexington, NC is being very helpful with this. There was no delay in responding.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2016 at 9:34pm
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Agree with you Charlie, Takes us maybe parts of 2 days at most to figure what we are bringing. Then of course we have been camping for many years. Don't bring much, enjoy the out of doors, live simple, less stress, true vacation.
------------- God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2016 at 10:03pm
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I don't expect it to take a week to pack. I would, however, appreciate more than a day to do so. I have just finished up a couple of mods, and need time to clean out the mess made from one of them before we can even begin to pack.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: Keith-N-Dar
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2016 at 6:47pm
Interesting how often a post of any problem prompts all the "me too" posts. It is hard for me to believe that the same company that made our Pod made all the junk that people report. I can't complain of any problem caused by FR. ------------- Keith-N-Dar Boris & Betty (Boston Terriers) 2011 R-Pod 177 2010 Ford F-150 |
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2016 at 7:32pm
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originally posted by Keith-N-Dar Interesting how often a post of any problem prompts all the "me too" posts. It is hard for me to believe that the same company that made our Pod made all the junk that people report. I can't complain of any problem caused by FR. Like the rust in Arizona, really? Let them come to your state or ours and get some real salt on the trailer! My bad in that we have had ours in the wintry salt on several occasions and have never really thought about washing it off during the cold winter. So now I look under and have a bit of scraping and sanding to do but it isn't major, just something that needs tending to because this owner never did maintenance UNDER his camper before. So after 5 years I am going to put a little time into it before it "potentially" becomes a problem. Like you. we have been pleased with our "twin like yours" the 2011 R-Pod 177. A great travel trailer. ------------- God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
Posted By: marwayne
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2016 at 7:52pm
I put a strap under my fresh water tank, I will put a strap on the other 2 tanks.
 ------------- If you want something done right, do it yourself. 2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd. |
Posted By: Planetwister
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2016 at 9:55pm
Great idea! I will be doing the same ------------- GLORY TO GOD 2016 178 Hood River 2004 F150 |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2016 at 10:04pm
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I will wait and see what it looks like after the dealer repairs it. If I don't like it, I will put at least one bolt through the frame on each bracket, possibly two per bracket. Jato, Overall, I really like my R-Pod 179. The rust I spotted has already been wire-brushed and painted. The worst spot looks like there was something on the spot, possibly a support while the frame was being painted. There did not appear to be any paint on that spot. This cross-member problem is something that should have been fixed a long time ago. Perhaps the actual number of incidents where tanks have fallen off are so low that the bean counters figured it was more cost effective to repair the ones that broke rather than fix it right on all of them. Everyone who has had a tank come loose or fall of needs to report this to the NHTSA. That is probably the only way it will get enough attention to actually be fixed. The good thing is that Forest River will cover this defect. The bad thing is that it means an extra two trips to the dealer. Once this week to take it there and another to pick it up the next week. I don't think Forest River will cover my mileage expenses to do this. On top of that, we had a thunderstorm with large hail that dented up our new car.  Some of the hail measured quarter-sized or a little larger. While the dents are not large, there are a number of them.------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: Podinaroundbc
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2016 at 8:42pm
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Thanks for the heads up. Will check ours this weekend. ------------- Art & Brenda Jake the dog 2015 179 HRE 2012 Nissan Titan |
Posted By: cactus
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2016 at 9:17pm
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I crawled beneath my new 179 and found the tanks were properly attached. Several other small items need to be taken care of and that is scheduled for Tuesday. cactus 2013 F150 crew cab short bed 2016 179 |
Posted By: frogpod
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2016 at 9:24pm
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In my opinion, perfect from the factory is not properly attached. If someone hasn't modified them, it needs real bolts or screws to be properly attached. ------------- Leo and Tami with Coltrane the Jack Russell Terrier 2010 Rpod 171 2003 Toyota Tacoma TRD |
Posted By: Retroactive
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2016 at 10:50pm
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Those screws are not meant for significant load bearing. I would not trust them with anything more than holding together body or widow panels. Someone threw engineering out the window in favor of saving factory man hours. Through bolt and a few drops of Loc-Tite, that would probably last the lifetime of the RV. ------------- |
Posted By: Happy Tripping
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2016 at 12:01pm
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I looked at my 2 year old 171, bolts look secure and close-fitting. My guess is that changes in the basic design for additional things - slides, greater length, etc resulted in 'teething problems. I am sure FR will get this straight with time, but they have a clear responsibility to recall all of the defective trailers for appropriate correction, just like all car manufacturers are required to do now. |
Posted By: jstrenn
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2016 at 6:13pm
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I've been reading this thread since it started. It even prompted me to take a trip out to the storage lot I use and check on the brackets installed on my 2015 RP178. I crawled under and found everything looked like it fit tightly and found no gaps. However the screws do seem a little undersized (in my opinion). But then I started doing the math, each tank is a 30 gallon tank. Thats 250 Lbs. Divided that in 2 because there are a front and rear bracket for each tank. So thats 125 Lbs per bracket. Now divided that in half again because the bracket is mounted on each end. So now were down to 62.5 Lbs. I had 2 screws on each end, so divide that in half again so each screw only has to support about 31 Lbs. Maximum with a fully loaded tank. So looking at it like that I don't think there is any need to panic. I feel each screw is more than capable of handling 31 Lbs. Just my thoughts...
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Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2016 at 7:07pm
You're probably correct if the screws are: a) Present b) Not twisted off or stripped c) Installed without gaps between brackets and frame These conditions are not always met, apparently. I believe #12 or #14 sheet metal screws would be adequate. I don't know what size is being used today. The worst cases are where there are gaps between the brackets and the frame. That puts a bending load on the screws, the weakest mode for a screw. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2016 at 8:08pm
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Consider also these things: 1. RP-179 fresh water tank is 36 gallons, not 30. That is about 295 lbs. full. 2. The calculations posted are for static loads. While the screws might be adequate for static loads, we are discussing what are dynamic loads. When the R-Pod is going down the road and hits a bump, the frame is pushed up, but the liquid in the tank wants to keep traveling straight. It takes significant force to move that water up also. Conversely, when the trailer frame drops, it takes force to move the load down as well, perhaps not quite as much since gravity helps. All of these are dynamic loads that are significantly more than the static load from when the trailer is stationary. It has been a long time since I took physics or advanced math, but I do remember the concepts. We took our R-Pod 179 to the dealer today to get the attachment of the brackets to the frame fixed. When we get it back, I still may end up modifying things myself to add at least one strong bolt through each bracket and the frame (at least 1/4") with appropriate washers and a nylock nut on each one. There are appropriate times to be a belt-and-suspender kind of guy. Edit: The service manager at the dealer said that all of the trailers on their lot use screws to attach the cross-members for the tanks. If this is so, then for the most part, it can be good enough, except when it isn't. Thus this message thread. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: Retroactive
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2016 at 8:38pm
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Another thing to consider is the stress put on the screws during assembly, there is a lot of potential to introduce damage to the screw when it is crushing into the frame going in. The type they are using now are self tapping an driven in with brute force. I am not trying to trash FR here, I think the Rpod is well thought out and a great value. It's just a fact that it is a questionable design for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. I am going into Rpod ownership with a mindset a little like owning any quirky American icon, a little wrench turning and upgrading is just par for course. They will be the first thing I inspect next week, if the bracket and screws look flush I will leave it be - and just put it in my log to check for loosening before each trip. ------------- |
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2016 at 8:55pm
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Agree on the dynamic loading. This has been a problem in the design since the start - my 2010 had this same design. ------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual 
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Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2016 at 9:14pm
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Just a simple piece of strap iron welded just below the bracket on which the cross-member could rest and still be removable would have gone a long way toward fixing this, I think. It would provide enough redundant support that the screws would probably be adequate.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: jstrenn
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2016 at 11:01pm
A few things you need to consider: 1. Check your yellow weight sticker on your pod. It lists your fresh water tank @ 250 pounds. The other 6 gallons you are calculating are in your hot water heater. 2. The shear strength of a #12 sheet metal screw is rated around 600 to 700 pounds in all the charts that I could find by googling. Of course it varied by manufacturer. I know that the strength is under ideal conditions. But I feel if the brackets are installed correctly (no gaps) as was in my case. I do not think there is a need to modify and go into a panic. I'm an aircraft mechanic and I fully understand the difference of static and dynamic loads and was taking that into consideration on my first post. You do what makes you feel better. I'll inspect mine every now and then and not worry so much.
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Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2016 at 9:32am
1. I will check the sticker as soon as I get back. However, IIRC, the weight on the sticker was 295 lbs, not 250. 2. Thank you for providing the shear strength for the screws. I had not looked that up. In your case, the brackets are tight up against the frame, so the situation for the screws used in yours is ideal. In my case, the brackets are not tight and do have gaps, meaning that the strength of the assembly is compromised. Nothing I wrote indicated panic. It is concern that this flaw still persists. Forest River's QA department is obviously not inspecting these R-Pods properly before they leave the plant or these flaws would not be present and we would not have read that the OP's black water tank had fallen off. You could have mentioned your background. None of us are mind readers. I did not know your background, or that you had taken dynamic loads into consideration. I appreciate the expertise you are providing on this subject. I will check when I get my R-Pod back next week. If things appear to be adequate, I will monitor to make sure things are not loosening. If I still have concerns, I will likely modify it once the factory warranty expires in December. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: Retroactive
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2016 at 10:25am
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I think this is the point in the discussion where we all need to sit around the virtual campfire and have virtual beer. At least arguing about the Rpods is a lot more productive than arguing about sports or politics! ------------- |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2016 at 11:13am
Make mine root beer please. Either that or Ginger Ale.  ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: Retroactive
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2016 at 11:31am
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I hear you. These days I am more likely to opt for a Ginger Ale too. I happen like to prefer mine with a little ice and lime, which is funny because everyone assumes I am having a mixed drink! ------------- |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2016 at 11:42am
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I'm going to have to try that. It sounds good.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: Retroactive
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2016 at 1:08pm
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It's really good with non-alcoholic Ginger Beer. Then you add the ice and lime to suit your taste. When it is really hot out I tend to add a lot more ice and lime. ------------- |
Posted By: jstrenn
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 11:26am
You are 100% right!! StephenH, I apologize. After reading my posts I was more than a little harsh. I hope you get your situation all worked out to your satisfaction. The design is not the best, but I suppose Forest River engineers figured it was good enough... Once again I am sorry.
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Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 11:52am
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It's Saturday.. take the wife and kids to Sonic for a shake.. stop by the local RV place.. look under a few TT's.. you will find FR didn't reinvent the wheel. And note that the highways are not littered with holding tanks.
------------- |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 1:57pm
I looked at my post again. I am sorry that I sounded like I was questioning your abilities. I should have looked up some of the information about screw strength first. Even so, in my case, the brackets and screws did need repair as it did have gaps and threads showing. That included at least one screw that was bent. The good news is that I got a call today to tell me that the work is done. My wife and I will be driving up Monday to pick it up and bring it home. I'll be able to get a good look at it once I get it in my own driveway again, although I will crawl under while we are there to at least do a basic check of all the brackets.What do you think of taking a small piece of angle iron, as long as, or a little longer than the width of the cross-bar brackets and drilling and tapping it as additional support under the bracket? Would that do any good or would punching more holes in the frame tend to weaken it more than the additional supports would strengthen it? This might be something I would consider if the gaps are not completely closed on all supports. That is, if it makes sense. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 10:37pm
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We picked up our R-Pod from the dealer today. Most of the brackets are now tight. What I think was done was to just tighten the screws. However, when we got there, the bracket on the entry door side for the fresh water tank was still not done. A technician came out and finished the job, but apparently either stripped out or sheared off one of the screws, as he then drilled another hole between the two and put a screw there. I'm not happy with that, but since I did not want to wait around longer or make yet another trip, we picked it up and I will modify that bracket to something more satisfactory. The rest, I will monitor to ensure they are not loosening. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: frogpod
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 10:42pm
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Drill a hole through each bracket and through the center of the frame and add a bolt with lock washers...not hard at all. No idea why they don't come that way.
------------- Leo and Tami with Coltrane the Jack Russell Terrier 2010 Rpod 171 2003 Toyota Tacoma TRD |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 9:40pm
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When I looked closer, the technician had stripped out the hole. That is why he had drilled and put a screw in between the locations for the original ones. I did not like that, so I purchased six 5/8x24x3" Stainless Steel hex-head bolts, six stainless steel washers, and six stainless steel nylock nuts. On the first bracket, I used the stripped hole to drill through the bracket and frame. On each of the others, I removed one screw and used that hole to drill through. Each got a bolt, washer, and locknut. I would say that this should be a permanent fix. The hard part is trying to drill straight. I didn't always get it perfect, but it is still better than what was in there originally.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: Retroactive
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2016 at 9:46am
------------- |
Posted By: ronahue
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 9:12am
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I checked all the tanks on my 2015 179 yesterday all of the bars that secure the tanks appear to mounted properly that's flush with the frame, however none of the bolts were tight. I took one or more turns on all the bolts to snug them up, being careful not to over tighten not knowing what sort of fastener was on the other side. ------------- Ron & Sharon 2015 R-Pod 179 2022 Nissan Frontier No trees were harmed in the sending of this message but a billion electrons were really agitated |
Posted By: frogpod
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 9:34am
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Those are small self tapping screws....there is no fastener on the other side. I put a real bolt through the center of each bracket. Drilled a quarter inch hole through each bracket into the center of the frame member. I recall the top is accessible to put a nut on by reaching around. ------------- Leo and Tami with Coltrane the Jack Russell Terrier 2010 Rpod 171 2003 Toyota Tacoma TRD |
Posted By: Akula1
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 11:17am
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I use to work Safety, and 95% of all safety related equipment, procedures, and safety material is off the blood of others. Most companies like airlines, auto, and home builders work off of a calculated cost of doing business weighing the cost of safety vs. the percentage of loss of life. It's sad, but true. :( ------------- 2019 R-Pod 190 2019 Colorado LT |
Posted By: Akula1
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 12:09pm
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Can't I take each screw out one at a time and dip it in Loc-Tite, and reinsert them to make sure they don't back out? ------------- 2019 R-Pod 190 2019 Colorado LT |
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 12:22pm
You could. But why? The incidence of this happening is very rare. But if it worries you, do what you feel will mitigate it's chances. ------------- |
Posted By: JandL
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 12:32pm
A long time ago when someone had posted this issue I went out and looked at my trailer and found the cross bars fit with no gap and 2 self-taping screws in place. Just to add a bit of backup I drilled and tapped the third unused hole for a ¼-20 grade 8 bolt. I also installed a lock washer and a fender washer to spread the load. It was very easy to drill and tap the frame tube; it’s only 1/8” thick.
 ------------- JandL 2013 Honda Ridgeline 2012 177 2 Paynes in a Pod |
Posted By: Retroactive
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 12:36pm
How thick is the wall of the frame tube? Did you counterbore the the bracket? ------------- |
Posted By: frogpod
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 12:48pm
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I couldn't reuse the hole where the small screw went. The screw sheared right off and was filling the hole and the remaining one was rusty and likely would shear off also. Each bracket was also missing a screw that was never installed .So I had to get the drill out to repair the bracket which was getting ready to fall off. I decided to put in a bolt instead of another small screw. I then added a bolt through the center of each bracket because....just because....and because I already had the drill out and needed to buy at least one bolt/nut/lockwasher at the hardware store. I also added the missing screw from the bracket that only had one screw holding it up......and I may have added missing screws from the other brackets as well. If you overtighten the small self tapping screws they will strip out and not hold. ------------- Leo and Tami with Coltrane the Jack Russell Terrier 2010 Rpod 171 2003 Toyota Tacoma TRD |
Posted By: JandL
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 1:06pm
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2” wide x 4” high x .120 wall thickness, rectangular tubing, Low-Carbon Steel, welded seam ------------- JandL 2013 Honda Ridgeline 2012 177 2 Paynes in a Pod |
Posted By: JandL
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 1:09pm
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I forgot to add I did not have to drill out the bracket. The hole thru it was something slightly over 1/4" diameter ------------- JandL 2013 Honda Ridgeline 2012 177 2 Paynes in a Pod |
Posted By: Retroactive
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 1:18pm
Thanks. So 1/8" thick puts it at 2.5 threads if my brain is working right. I usually like to use the 3 thread rule, but for supplemental support that is plenty good. I may have to borrow the taps from work one day! ------------- |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 1:20pm
In case anyone is interested, this is the type screw used for the tanks. There were two in each bracket, both in the bottom holes. The top holes had nothing. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: JandL
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 2:05pm
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You could use a ¼-28 bolt and get about 3.5 threads; it would also be easier to tap. I had ¼-20 bolts so I used what I had. You still have to be careful when installing them in such thin material so they don’t strip out the tapped treads. The failure mode of the tank support bracket is in shear (cut off) and not tension (stretched) so you only need to tighten them up enough so they don’t unscrew. ------------- JandL 2013 Honda Ridgeline 2012 177 2 Paynes in a Pod |
Posted By: Retroactive
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 2:23pm
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That is my fear, thread stripping during tap or install - I can tend to get a little overenthusiastic during tightening. Definitely not worried about the shear strength on those bad boys. I have to remember to get under my new 171 to take a look before next Friday. ------------- |
Posted By: JandL
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 2:51pm
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I used a 7/16” nut driver to install the bolts. Most of the time it’s hard to generate enough torque with a screwdriver handle type tool, plus you will be on your back under the trailer and in a narrow space so it will hard to get any kind of leverage to generate enough torque with one hand to strip them out. There may be people with enough hand strength to strip the threads, I am not one of them. ------------- JandL 2013 Honda Ridgeline 2012 177 2 Paynes in a Pod |
Posted By: Retroactive
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 2:56pm
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OK, I get it now. I imagine it is not easy to maneuver under there. The only time I went under was to scope out where all the wires run, already planning to install some form of "Reverse Light". ------------- |
Posted By: Appocalexx
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2016 at 6:25am
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Dang I will for sure be adding this to my list of things to do, or at least check. Great thread. Things like this should be stickied or linked to another thread with mass info on it. ------------- |
Posted By: timpod
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2016 at 5:23pm
Thanks for the heads up on this one! I just checked my pod and the cross frame supports on all the tanks are too short. There is a 1/4" gap on the end of each support and two screws bridging the gap. An accident waiting to happen.  ------------- 2016 Pod 172 2015 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2016 at 8:58pm
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timpod, glad you caught it. The dealer did nothing more than take an impact driver and tighten them. I did not trust that after one of the screws stripped and he had to drill and put one between the original two locations. That is why I decided to drill and install stainless steel bolts, washers, and locknuts. I'm pretty sure now that my tanks will stay in their correct locations.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: timpod
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2016 at 9:23pm
I'm going to through bolt as well, should hold it :) Did you have to use spacers, or did it all tighten down without them? ------------- 2016 Pod 172 2015 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2016 at 9:33pm
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It tightened without spacers. I suspect it is from pulling the frame in to the crossmember. I don't think the crossmember stretches.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: TargheeImages
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 10:36pm
| We are new rpodders as well with a new 2016 178 on only our second weekend jaunt. Yesterday as we came through Yellowstone I caught motion in my side mirror as we were traveling at 45 mph near Pelican Creek and watched as the fresh water tank went careening across the oncoming lane of travel coming to rest in the middle of the road. With absolutely no shoulder we proceeded another 150 yards to a pull out and discovered that the cross bar holding the tank in place had come loose and was now dragging underneath the trailer. Thankfully, no traffic was coming at the moment the tank left our rig or it would have been disastrous. We retrieved the tank and had to take the other side of the bracket off to get it home. Ours too, was only secured with 2 small sheet metal screws which sheared off. Very disappointed that Forest River is allowing such shoddy workmanship and design. We obviously are still under warranty but this is a very serious issue and Forest River should be stepping up and issuing a recall to correct this on all units. I will be scouring this forum to find out what other unpleasant surprises we may be able to correct proactively. Any advice is welcome. |
Posted By: jdtrotter
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 11:34pm
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Wow, we are in the decision mode and thought we had found what we want, but we don't need these problems! Is this symptomatic of the quality? Thanks |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 8:31am
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If you make sure that the dealer checks the crossbars and makes sure there are no gaps or bent screws, you probably will have no problems. I added the bolts because I did see gaps and bent screws. This happened, and I took it to the dealer before anything could happen. I was not happy with the dealer just tightening the screws, especially when one of them was stripped and the service person just drilled another hole and put the same type screw in. That is when I decided to go ahead and drill all the way through and put in stainless steel bolts, washers, and locknuts. The dealer will not do that as screws are, apparently, an industry standard way of mounting tanks. It is one thing I would check if purchase another trailer, regardless of brand. Anyone having such a mishap should report it to the https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/ - NHTSA so that the problem can be documented and, hopefully, get a change so that this will not happen to anyone else. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: GLBCamper
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 11:12am
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Can you tell me what type of drill and bit you used to drill into the frame? ------------- Old: 2014 177 HRE 2015 Tacoma V6 4x4 Double Cab New: 2016 EVO ATS 200rd 2016 F150 4x4 Sport |
Posted By: frogpod
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 11:29am
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I believe I used 1/4 inch diameter bolts through the center of the frame to secure my brackets. Used a 1/8 bit first and then a 1/4 inch , same diameter as the bolts. Wiggled the bit to make the hole slightly larger than the bolt. Normal metal bits. One bolt used for each side of each bracket. Make sure the hole through the frame is near the center of the frame to keep the frame structural integrity. ------------- Leo and Tami with Coltrane the Jack Russell Terrier 2010 Rpod 171 2003 Toyota Tacoma TRD |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 11:35am
+1. Very important point! ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 12:17pm
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I used 5/16" bolts, and also drilled through the lower holes at the center of the frame. I used a cordless drill and Harbor Freight bits. I about wore out two of them drilling through the steel of the frame. I have a little sharpener that helped.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 12:54pm
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Welcome to both of you - go through and make sure all fittings are tight, fresh water and drain lines. ------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual
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Posted By: Oliveman
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2016 at 2:23pm
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Holy S--t, I just bought a 2015 178 and heading out on a big 2 week trip next week. Thanks for the heads up. ------------- 2016 R-Pod 178 2015 Pathfinder Platinum AWD Wife, Child and Dog on adventures |
Posted By: Rustler
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2016 at 2:50am
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This thread is a real eye-opener, and full of good advice. Having just purchased a new 2016 Rpod 171 (May 2016) I checked all of the tank cross members. What I discovered is that all cross members (except 1) are welded to the frame on one end with the other end held by heavy sheet metal screws with a 3/8 inch hex head. I snugged up all screws with a reasonable amount of torque well before risking stripping the threads. Only one cross member looked like it would benefit from a bolt drilled through the frame well away from the top or bottom. This was on the front crossmember ahead of the fresh water tank. This cross member is the one that had screws on both ends. So I'll likely drill for a 1/4 inch bolt through the frame. The flange at the end of this cross member is not flush with the frame, but is skewed. One of the two screws is in at an angle at the gap. After I get the through bolt in place, I may removed the skewed screw. Maybe with some heavy pounding I can get the flange end in contact with the frame. If not I'll get some washers to fill the gap. While I was at it I tightened all attachment clamps for hoses and wiring. Some were less than fully tightened. Also a couple of electrical ground points needed a bit of tightening. I would recommend that all Rpod owners check the underside for tightness of all fittings.
------------- Russ 2009 Toyota RAV4 V6 w/ tow package 2016 Rpod 171 HRE |
Posted By: bluecatjudy
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 11:28am
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This is a great thread. I just read through from the beginning. I bought my 2016 179 3 weeks ago used. When I called FR about mounting a WD to the tongue of the trailer they told me if I dril into the frame it would void the warranty. They did not want me to drill holes for screws. I can't imagine what they would say about through bolts. I don't have a warranty but I am concerned about the integrity of the frame - I am no engineer but just concerned after FR comments. ------------- sailorman |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 2:16pm
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Yeah, when I mentioned installing a window in the door when I called about trying to purchase fabric that matched the original kitchen curtain fabric, I was told that installing a window voided the warranty on the door. As if installing a window destroyed the latch or hinge. The benefit of installing a window and through-bolting the brackets for the tanks was much greater than the fear of the door or frame failing. By "installing a WD" do you mean Weight Distribution Hitch? If so, why would you need to drill into the frame? The brackets for my Equal-i-zer hitch use bolts above and below the frame to hold them in place. The only one I know of that suggests drilling is the Andersen, and even then, drilling all the way through is probably not needed. Drilling a depression for the set screw to grip is probably just as helpful. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: bluecatjudy
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 7:33pm
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You must be a genius. I was looking at a anti sway bar that required 4 self taping screws but I bought the prior owner's Anderson WD. Yes with a set screw. BUT I did get a RF brake controller that required 4 self taping screws to the tongue. Oh well what's 6 more holes.😀 ------------- sailorman |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 7:54pm
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I think you will not have any problems. What type of TV (Tow Vehicle) are you using that you got an RF brake controller? What made you decide on it instead of one like the Tekonsha Prodigy P3 or (the one that I have) the Hopkins InSIGHT Flex-Mount controller? If you don't already have the connector, you will have to run wiring anyway and the two I mentioned cost much less than the RF model I saw on eTrailer.com.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: bluecatjudy
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 10:09pm
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I have a vw toureg. I had read it was difficult to connect up a brake controller to a Tourage. Since I had never connected a brake controller I was trying to cover all bases without taking it back to the dealer. ------------- sailorman |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2016 at 9:16am
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I understand. I have recently read where a BMW owner had to go the same route plus put in a "light out" device since the BMW didn't like the trailer's LED lights.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: bluecatjudy
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2016 at 12:30pm
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Not that I didn't trust you Steveh, but I consulted my friend who built 2 50 foot steel sailboats and recently an airplane. He didn't think I would have a problem with the through bolts. Half done already. 3 more to go. No problem but you forgot to mention a pillow would be helpful. ------------- sailorman |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2016 at 2:07pm
I'm glad your friend confirmed that it wouldn't be a problem. As for a pillow, yes, I guess that would have been nice. You will probably be done when you read this. Isn't it nice not to have to worry about the tanks falling off?  ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |