Torsion axel issue?
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Forum Name: Podmods, Maintenance, Tips and Tricks
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4874
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Topic: Torsion axel issue?
Posted By: ToddLat
Subject: Torsion axel issue?
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2014 at 9:29pm
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Today I was towing the pod to our offsite storage. As I was going down our road at 25 mph I noticed the the left side tire was acting like it was low on air. Seemed to be compressing a lot more than usual and actually seemed to bounce off of the road. I stopped and verified the the tire pressure was correct and the tire was not low. The right side tire was tracking normally and not compress bounce etc. I looked at the axel and did not see anything obvious that was not correct. The tire is rotating normally so the brake is not locked on. Any ideas?? I am pulling for the July 4th holiday and am concerned. Todd ------------- Todd and Beth 2013 RP 176 T 2013 Nissan Pathfinder |
Replies:
Posted By: sammycamper
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2014 at 11:39pm
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If you are using a weight distribution hitch, you are torquing additional pressure to your trailer tires, because there's only one camper axel and no rear axle to distribute weight to. That can have consequences that are difficult to predict. Sam ------------- 2012 rPod 173 2008 Trailblazer 4WD V6 |
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 7:20am
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Did you look to see if the suspension was hitting the stop? Have you checked the lug nuts to see if they are tightened to spec? (95-105 ft-lbs if I remember right) ------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual 
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Posted By: ToddLat
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 7:40am
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Sam,
You may be onto something. I just installed a new power jack and it has a longer throw than the manual jack. This is the first time that I have hitched using the power jack. it is possible that I raised the hitch up too high before I connected my bars. This, in fact, may be putting excess pressure on the rear axel. I will rehitch without raising the rig so much and check the results.
Techntrek,
I had not checked the torque lately and will do so prior to rehitching as noted above.
Both valid points and I will verify them and report back. Kind of scary watching that tire act that way. Nothing that I would want to see for any length of time, that is for sure.
Todd ------------- Todd and Beth 2013 RP 176 T 2013 Nissan Pathfinder |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 10:09am
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The power jack and the height you raised it to hook up should have no effect if your WDH settings are unchanged. It's true any WDH will transfer some additional weight to the trailer axle, but it's independent of jack type or initial height. Loose lug nuts will have an effect. compare the clearance between the tire and the fender on both sides. They should be approximately equal +/- an inch or so. from your description it sounds like something in the axle or its attachment is loose or defective. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: ToddLat
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 5:16pm
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Ok. Took another look. All lug nuts are torqued so that is not the issue. Towed the pod for a short distance without the WDH ( used a standard hitch) and the same results. What I saw was that where the axel usually moves to absorb shock is not flexing. In fact I think that both sides are sitting in a fully flexed position. Will post a few pics in a few. Please let me know if yours are as such or sit in another position. Thanks
Front View 
Rear View  ------------- Todd and Beth 2013 RP 176 T 2013 Nissan Pathfinder |
Posted By: ToddLat
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 6:41pm
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I forgot to add these photos. Clearly shows the left side tire in a position other than normal. It is forward of where it should be as apposed to the right side tire.
Left side tire position 
Right side tire position 
Sure looks like the left side tire is a bit forward of the left side tire. The relationship of the tire to the fender makes it seem that much worse vs the right side tire. I know that the one fender is a bit lower but the tire should still be centered regardless. The left tire clearly is not centered. Has anyone else seen anything like this? Todd ------------- Todd and Beth 2013 RP 176 T 2013 Nissan Pathfinder |
Posted By: Budward
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 6:45pm
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Might try carefully measuring from the axle to the front of the frame on both sides and compare. Seeing some of FR's "workmanship" in other areas I wouldn't count on the fenders or the axle being centered. ------------- 2014 179 Towed by a 2015 Ford Transit Diesel Supervised by a German/Aussie mix and a Labradoodle! |
Posted By: sammycamper
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 7:39pm
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Look at the actual mounting b, rackets that fasten the square section of the axel to the frame. One may be loose and bent. I believe more firmly than ever that WDHs put more weight on the single axel than it's designed to handle. ------------- 2012 rPod 173 2008 Trailblazer 4WD V6 |
Posted By: David and Danette
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 7:48pm
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Measure the front or rear of the fender to the front or rear corner of the trailer. They should be equal measurements on the left and right side of the trailer. I agree something looks off center the fenders or the axle. ------------- 2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018- 2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019) 2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014) Middle Tn 2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab |
Posted By: ToddLat
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 7:50pm
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I looked at the brackets when I was at the camper. They do not look bent and the hardware looks tight but I did not have the proper tools with me to verify. Trying to get an appt at our local rpod dealer. Not looking good for our trip next week. Fingers crossed
I did not measure the axel so I don't have that answer. I don't think that is the issue as the axel would still absorb shock even if it were out of location or a bracket were bent. The fact is that the left side of the axel is not absorbing shock. The tire is taking it all. I guess I will see what the service dept. says and go from there.  I will let everyone know at the end what the issue is. Thanks for all of the suggestions Todd ------------- Todd and Beth 2013 RP 176 T 2013 Nissan Pathfinder |
Posted By: Old Hippy
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 7:55pm
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Do you think maybe the fender was mounted wrong !?
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Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 8:06pm
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My vote on the appearance is a fender that isn't exactly where it should be. At least one of my wheels looks the same, and it isn't the wheel. ------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual
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Posted By: sammycamper
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 1:02am
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How do things look in terms of corrosion? Could one side of your suspension be fused by rust? You might want to try jacking up your camper to see how the wheels hang when they are not load bearing. Do they both hang freely and symmetrically? I hate to see you give up on your camping plans. I'm feeling some urgency about solving this (aka, this could happen to me). Sam
------------- 2012 rPod 173 2008 Trailblazer 4WD V6 |
Posted By: ToddLat
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 5:25am
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I have yet to jack it up. When I looked last night there was no evidence of rust around the axel. I as well want to get to the bottom of this. I do not want to have to cancel my plans but it is a two and a half hr tow and I am not going to do that with what is acting as a solid axel. Still trying to get a hold of service. Argh. ------------- Todd and Beth 2013 RP 176 T 2013 Nissan Pathfinder |
Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 6:50am
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todd: i can't help much with your problem, but I can say my fenders are not mounted equally front to back or up and down. hogone ------------- Jon & Pam 2013 RP177 2023 F150 2017 HD Streetglide CHEESEHEAD |
Posted By: Budward
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 7:30am
I am very familiar with both Dexter and Alko torsion axles and don't see how it could lock unless it was severely overloaded somehow and jammed in the up position, or the rubber shock element completely failed. Have you had someone go in the trailer and jump up and down to confirm the axle is not operating? On my 179 the tires are very supple with a fair amount of movement just walking around in the trailer. I also notice a lot of tire sidewall flex when towing, much more than I've ever seen on other trailers even though I run the full 50 psi pressure. ------------- 2014 179 Towed by a 2015 Ford Transit Diesel Supervised by a German/Aussie mix and a Labradoodle! |
Posted By: ToddLat
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 9:54am
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I am going to jack it up after work tonight to see if I can find anything else (if the axel stays put or rotates back to normal). Will also jump inside the POD to see if there is any flex. As of now, the earliest I can get it looked at is July 30.
I have never seen the sidewalls flex as much as they did the other day (and acutally see the tire leave the road surface) and it is on the same road with the same surface that I am always on (between the house and the main road). Normally I see the axel flexing up and down but not this time. Maybe I am just paranoid but I am always trying to be as safe as possible when towing. I dont like puting my family or anyone else in danger if I can help it. ------------- Todd and Beth 2013 RP 176 T 2013 Nissan Pathfinder |
Posted By: David and Danette
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 11:10am
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I am going to change this thread a little but the same subject. I read that a torsion axle has a shorter life span than a leaf spring axle. Does anyone know how short and what part fails? ------------- 2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018- 2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019) 2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014) Middle Tn 2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab |
Posted By: Budward
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 11:31am
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I know Dexter has a 5 year warranty on their torsion axles. I have a trailer over 10 yrs old with them and no problems yet. My guess on failure would be the rubber torsion rods inside the axle beam. ToddLat- if you determine you have a Dexter axle I'd give them a call- in my experience they have superb customer service. (574) 295-7888 You should get the lot number of the axle before calling- this is a 9 digit number on the right rear of the axle under the words Dexter Axle ------------- 2014 179 Towed by a 2015 Ford Transit Diesel Supervised by a German/Aussie mix and a Labradoodle! |
Posted By: ToddLat
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 12:53pm
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Thanks for the info Budward. I will grab that number tonight while I am at the POD jacking her up! That just doesnt sound right somehow...... ------------- Todd and Beth 2013 RP 176 T 2013 Nissan Pathfinder |
Posted By: Cap-n-Cray
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 1:15pm
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Todd, I thought the same thing was happening to my new 177. One side looked lower than the other. Take a measurement on level ground from the bottom of the trailer near the axle side to side. Disregard the fenders. The fenders are mounted at different heights on each side. The passenger side fender is mounted higher that the driver side fender because of the lower Rdoom channel. http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4852&title=fenders-uneven - http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4852&title=fenders-uneven I think the factory does not use templates to mount the fenders. They just do it by what looks correct. Mine looks the same as yours, left side not centered on the tire. I was concerned for a couple of hundred miles of my 6K trip to Nashville. Once I measured the trailer height and found it to be level side to side I was OK. Good luck... ------------- Cary 2014 RP-177 |
Posted By: Cap-n-Cray
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 1:30pm
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David, I have torsion bar axles on two other trailers and never had any problems. I have over loaded my big enclosed trailer several times and cracked a drum at the hub. Axles are still fine and over 20 years old. I think the rubber rods may finally wear out, but the torsion bar steel should last a long time. ------------- Cary 2014 RP-177 |
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 5:16pm
The axles under our airstream are 35 years old. Still fine. ------------- |
Posted By: David and Danette
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 9:06pm
Thank you for the replies, it sounds like our axle will out live my wife and I.  ------------- 2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018- 2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019) 2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014) Middle Tn 2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab |
Posted By: ToddLat
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 9:29pm
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Ok. Here is what we found: Jumped around inside of the pod and saw that both sides of the axel were in fact flexing (there was someone else in the storage area at that time and we could only imagine what they must have been thinking!). Great sign!!! Verified tire pressures again just to make sure. Just retorqued yesterday so that is good. Hitched again with standard hitch ( non WDH). Pulled out of the storage area and when I got to the gate the brakes locked up. Never did that before but then again we were on a dirt surface. While I was stopped I checked the gain on the brake controller and saw that it was almost double of what I normally run. I typically don't check it when I pull back and forth from storage as it is really close to home. Well after I corrected the brake controller we went for a pull with the wife in the chase car watching from behind and I watching the mirrors closely. While the tires did flex they never left the road as before. The wife determined the the axels were flexing over bumps. Both sides. Great news What I can determine is that the brake controller being out of whack may have caused me to think that the axel was not functioning properly as the area were I saw the issue was a downhill road and my foot on the brake to control speed. I feel now that the tire must have been locking up and bouncing over bumps rather than rolling over them. I never saw smoke from locked up tires but that is the only explanation that I have as the pod seems to be pulling ok now. Again when this issue occurred I had the WDH attached and the gain of the brake control was erroneously high. I will be pulling again in about a week to the house without WDH and will verify the operation again. My lesson here may be two fold. First off ALWAYS verify the gain of the brake control regardless of the distance pulling. Second is if the WDH is really needed with the POD? I will have to rehitch with the WDH to verify if the tire bounces again or not regardless of the brake controller gain setting. Thanks to all of the suggestions of things to look at. I was paranoid about a potentially messed up axel as that is a scary situation. I do now have an appt scheduled and think that I may still keep it just to have everything looked at. Just want to make sure all really is ok. Todd ------------- Todd and Beth 2013 RP 176 T 2013 Nissan Pathfinder |
Posted By: Budward
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 9:37pm
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Very good! As I said I have noticed much more tire "squash" over bumps with the rpod tires than any trailer I've ever owned, and that has been a bunch! I even notice walking around in the trailer it bounces quite a bit more than other trailers.. I happen to have two Goodyear Marathon 15" trailer radials on rims that I think may fit the rpod, they are used as spares on other trailers I own. When it cools off this fall I may just mount them up and go for a drive to see if the same sidewall flex is evident. Glad to hear your axle wasn't bad, but I'd still measure the distance front to back and make sure the axle is mounted square to the trailer frame, assuming the frame is square.  ------------- 2014 179 Towed by a 2015 Ford Transit Diesel Supervised by a German/Aussie mix and a Labradoodle! |
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2014 at 7:14pm
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Whether or not you need a WDH is dependent on your TV. Trucks that are designed to tow heavier loads, like the F150, Expedition, Suburban, Silverado, don't. Lighter vehicles like minivans, do, because of their soft suspension. No matter what the vehicle, it will improve your ride quality even if you don't need it. After moving from a minivan to our 'burban I tested with and w/o, and decided to keep using it because it rides much better (plus it is my sway control). ------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual
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Posted By: CyberShanks
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2014 at 1:33pm
Curious on how loose lug nuts will effect ride height with a torsion axle. Could you clear up my curiosity? Thanks, Jim |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2014 at 1:40pm
No clue how much loose nuts will affect the height. Depends on how loose, how long, how much driving, etc. But, no matter how loose, it won't be a problem for long. The studs will sheer off and you'll be picking up the pieces of wheel and trailer behind you 
------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: ToddLat
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2014 at 11:52pm
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Lug nuts were not loose. Retorqued to ensure and all was fine. As I stated previously, the brake controller was bumped and was maxed. Also, I only jacked the hitch high enough to get my bars of the WDH mounted and no higher and the camper rode as normal. Todd ------------- Todd and Beth 2013 RP 176 T 2013 Nissan Pathfinder |