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air tabs

Printed From: R-pod Owners Forum
Category: R-pod Discussion Forums
Forum Name: Podmods, Maintenance, Tips and Tricks
Forum Discription: Ask maintenance questions, share your podmods (modifications) and helpful tips
URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3916
Printed Date: 30 Apr 2024 at 1:44am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.64 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: air tabs
Posted By: rex
Subject: air tabs
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 8:45pm


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jrr



Replies:
Posted By: rex
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 8:53pm
I hope all can see them botton of picture is a slide not to good at adding pictures, Just got back from a trip, lots of rain you can see back is not to dirty,tabs help that, will let all know about fuel savings when my son get all the numbers.


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jrr


Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 9:48pm
I'll be interested in seeing the long-term results.   :-) 

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Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual


Posted By: Paige
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 9:51pm
Me too!

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Paige and Pete
2010 177 - RPug
2012 Rav (six cylinder)
New York & Florida residents


Posted By: rex
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 9:35pm
Air tabs been using them for several months have not been a long trip until past week went on a 550mile round trip,and averaged .4 miles per gal increase,on a long haul say 1000 miles or more its a little savings, the tabs almost stop the pushing effect or sway when being passed by bigger truck,rear of trailor stays cleaner you can see the swirl behind you when pulling in the rain,I USED a total of 32 tabs,16 ea side bought 5 extra,just in case total cost $114.42,w freight.Ea tab costs $2.75. HOPE this is helpful and you can understand me. thanks

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jrr


Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 1:12pm
If I had time to kill I would try to rig up a "tail" like this guy did for his car, to see if that smoothed out the rear airflow enough to help with mpg.  This guy achieved a 15% increase.
 
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/project-geo-metro-boat-tail-prototype-15-mpg-10691.html - http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/project-geo-metro-boat-tail-prototype-15-mpg-10691.html
 
Alternatively I would like to rig up a triangle that would essentially convert the rear of the pod to a standard camper's boxy rear, to see how that changed things.  In either case the pod's hitch could be used to support the weight, along with two straps over the top running to the tongue to pull it tight and provide more support.


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Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual


Posted By: Seanl
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 2:53pm
I think although I have never tested it in any way that a lot of the issues with drag on the Rpod is the distance between the TV and the RPod nose. The rounded nose of the pod would create a space between the TV and Pod that would create turbulence that would increase drag. I know that in Tractor Trailers they put fairings on the tractor to reduce the gap between the tractor and the trailer to get more laminar flow across the whole rig. I have thought that maybe the tabs on the back of the TV or both might work better. 

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Sean, 2011 Rpod RP-173,2009 Jeep Liberty Rocky Mountain Edition


Posted By: Sleepless
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 3:13pm
To me, much of the R-Pod's design problem is the backward slope of the lower part of the front.  Bring the front down perpendicular to the road and I bet mpg will improve.  Again, this is just me thinking out loud.

Bob


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2014 R-Pod 178 (OUR POD)
2009 Chevrolet Avalanche


Posted By: dsmiths
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 10:36pm
The tabs look similar to vortex generators on some aircraft, these generate turbulence and break up the flow of air for specific purposes. I don't see how disturbing the air flow at the back of the pod could help induced drag. I agree with many that the problem is the shape of the front of the pod and the distance between the T.V. and the front of the pod, this area is subject to a vacuum and turbulence and increases induced drag. I don't care, its still fun and cool looking.

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Dane and Donna Smith
2011 RP-172
2008 Chevrolet Trailblazer 4X4
lift kit
prodigy wireless brake controller


Posted By: Outbound
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2013 at 1:26pm
I did road tests and computer simulations on airflow over my vehicle and r-pod several years ago.  The gap between the vehicle and the front of the r-pod really didn't create significant drag.  The problem area was created directly behind the r-pod: fast moving air travelled along the roof slammed down to the ground immediately behind the trailer and created a large swirling vortex of low pressure about 5' high behind the trailer.

Next time you're pulling the trailer in the rain/drizzle, watch around the rear of the trailer in your mirrors - you can see the maelstrom that's created back there. 

In reality, the r-pod's shape creates far from a sleek slipstream.  I think that Doug's approach for a squared-off rear (or maybe something more rounded-off and airstream-ish) would likely perform much better.

Question for rex: Have you tried the air tabs across the top of your trailer?  I suspect that installing them along the rear edge of the air conditioner (and extending that line across the top of the trailer) would yield the best results.


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Craig :: 2009 RP171 towed by a 2017 F150


Posted By: Keith-N-Dar
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2013 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by Sleepless

To me, much of the R-Pod's design problem is the backward slope of the lower part of the front.  Bring the front down perpendicular to the road and I bet mpg will improve.  Again, this is just me thinking out loud.Bob



The interesting thing about this comment is the "problem" is one of the things that made Pods attractive to many people. It is the thing that sets them apart from the rest of the little trailers. Making the changes you suggest would eliminate the attraction.

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Keith-N-Dar
Boris & Betty (Boston Terriers)
2011 R-Pod 177
2010 Ford F-150


Posted By: Sleepless
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2013 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by Keith-N-Dar

Originally posted by Sleepless

To me, much of the R-Pod's design problem is the backward slope of the lower part of the front.  Bring the front down perpendicular to the road and I bet mpg will improve.  Again, this is just me thinking out loud.Bob



The interesting thing about this comment is the "problem" is one of the things that made Pods attractive to many people. It is the thing that sets them apart from the rest of the little trailers. Making the changes you suggest would eliminate the attraction.


I would never think of modifying the design of my pod.  I was merely commenting, as were several others, not suggesting.  Again, I was just thinking out loud.

Bob


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2014 R-Pod 178 (OUR POD)
2009 Chevrolet Avalanche


Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2013 at 9:24pm
Wouldn't hurt to play around with some of the shapes suggested, none would be permanently mounted.  Don't like the results or the look, remove two straps and pull it out of the rear receiver.  For the cost of some cardboard it would be worth some test rigs.  I might just try one out on our next 3-week trip next July.  Approve 

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Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual


Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2013 at 7:43am
Rex asked me to post the following email received from the Airtab company last October:
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Rex here is how we answered a question from a RPod customer back in April 2012.
 
Here are two sites you might want to look at...
 
http://www.airtab.com/gallery/gallery.html - http://www.airtab.com/gallery/gallery.html  and http://www.buyairtab.com/ - http://www.buyairtab.com/
 
 
Jack Latimer
Airtab, LLC
 
From April 2012 with a customer in Texas
I have ordered a “Forest River R-POD” tear-drop shaped travel trailer(see attachment). Approximate dry weight is 2,775 lbs, pod width is 6’5’’ (8.0’ to outside of tires), 8’8’’ high (9’7’’ to top of AC). My questions and comments are as follows:
1.       There is considerable distance from the end of the roof of my tow vehicle to the beginning of the trailer front (distance of the covered PU bed). Where should I apply air tabs on the tow vehicle?
2.    For the trailer, due to its “tear drop shape”, where should air tabs be mounted? On the front, the sides, etc. , as there is not the “squared off flat back to the trailer:? Should air tabs be placed on the ac unit(top? Sides? Both?)
5.       Any other aero suggestions for the trailer?
Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated.
JC
=================================
JC, 
I remembered we answered a question similar to yours about 18 months ago and here is what our aero guy said then. 
Sorry I didn't think of this before.
The Rpod trailer has a particularly evil fastback design (in side view) that much like the early Porsche 911 fastback body style, suffers from terribly high aero drag.  That's because the location of flow separation on the curved roof top surface wanders forward & backward over the tail.  As the rooftop's separation line wanders aft, the adverse pressure gradient builds to unsustainable levels and the flow  separates, then the flow attachment line snaps forward and gets re-established.  This unstable flow oscillation builds and collapses much like the current in an old ignition coil.  Every time the flow separation location snaps forward it creates a huge unwanted burble of large scale turbulence that migrates back into the near wake.  This unsteady flow has a periodicy that varies with vehicle speed.
 Porsche stopped it by inventing the Whale Tail which also gave some downforce.  Today's modern VW "Bug" has a smaller lip above the rear window.  The purpose it is to fix the separation point at one location  (in side view) so it doesn't migrate fore-and-aft over the rear window (which creates very high drag).  A side benefit is that the vehicle then becomes more stable.
 The little teardrop-shaped Rpod trailer badly needs a similar "lip" installed transversely across the entire rooftop - to fix the point of separation at one point.  I would suggest  it be located about one-foot aft of the rear of the rooftop air conditioning housing.
 You could place a row of  Airtabs across that station on the rooftop, but the vorticity would simply help the flow remain attached further aft.  Unfortunately, eventually the flow would separate farther downstream, and then the unsteady flow mechanism would once again occur.  Only this time it will be worse, because the unsteady aero forces are occurring farther aft on the trailer - which might make the tail wag the dog so to speak.
So don't let him use Airtabs transversely across the roof.  Instead, have him mount them only on the sides - not in a straight vertical line but following the side contour.  In other words, the trailing edge apex of each Airtab should be located just a couple of inches forward of the trailing edge of the side of the trailer.  The line of Airtabs will be curved to mimic the side contour as viewed from the side.  Much like the red painted "swoop" graphic except positioned far enough aft that the line of Airtabs will fit aft of the side window.
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The customer, JC, writes back in May 2012 saying this....
Mr. Latimer- again a very helpful reply, which I greatly appreciate. Forest River must have been talking to your aero guy, because they began installing a “lip” or spoiler, that goes transversely across the roof in 2012 (my unit has it) and all the units going forward. It looks exactly like what your aero guy is recommending. I’ll sketch out, my understanding of your air-tab scheme for the side of the trailer, scan and e-mail it, to make sure that I am understanding the advice. Then I can get a count together and place the order. Again thanks for your follow-up, which is both rare and appreciated.
 


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Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2017 at 9:21am
There is now an example of the use of the airtab vortex generators on a Winnebago Winnie Drop 1780 here:  http://www.airtab.com/application-rv.htm - http://www.airtab.com/application-rv.htm . The example is about the 3rd from the top. The guy claims about a 20% improvement in fuel economy. Admittedly, his previous MPG was particularly awful.

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: DavMar
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2017 at 4:39pm
Air Tabs .... sounds like Voodoo medicine to me! Tongue 

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Dave & Marlene J with Zoey the
wonder dog.
2017 Rpod 180
2016 Toyota Tacoma SR5 4x4
Lexington, NC


Posted By: Keith-N-Dar
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2017 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

There is now an example of the use of the airtab vortex generators on a Winnebago Winnie Drop 1780 here:  http://www.airtab.com/application-rv.htm - http://www.airtab.com/application-rv.htm . The example is about the 3rd from the top. The guy claims about a 20% improvement in fuel economy. Admittedly, his previous MPG was particularly awful.


His after mileage isn't great either. 


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Keith-N-Dar
Boris & Betty (Boston Terriers)
2011 R-Pod 177
2010 Ford F-150


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2017 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by Keith-N-Dar

His after mileage isn't great either. 
Good point, but I figured everyone would kinda notice that. Embarrassed

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost



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