I have a baseline tongue weight now of 375#'s with a stripped down Pod. No propane tank, no batteries, no water or waste water, no cushions... I do mean stripped.

I've mounted my batteries (dual 6v's) and placed the tank back on. I just added 156#'s to the tongue. So by using the formula Force x Length = Weight x length (X) I built a spreadsheet using F=(W x X)L to determine how much gear to offset the added weight.

Interesting, that way reduced the counter weight by 73#'s. I will continue as suggested. Thank you for correcting.

I feel going beyond what is reasonable for the trailer (in my mind 420#'s) tongue weight is just asking for a issue with the A frame. As I've mentioned, my dealer is looking into my bent A frame. How much is too much on that A frame? I've done the scales and the math to find I run at about 400#s on the hitch. I have a bent A frame.. 375#'s is close to 11% of the trailer axle rating. I have strived to stay close to 3200#'s on the axle. That puts me very close to 12.5% of the rating. That to me is a very safe spot. I find that being there, I really don't need WDH, which I'd also like not to run with. I will run with sway control though (relax all, I not going crazy here.. LOL). 

From this I can calculate my counter balance to the area of loading. Is it as simple as to increase my tongue weight by 10#'s, I can reduce my counter balance by 10#'s? 

I do so asking you! I do so hope you don't mind! You're explanation/example of formula helps a lot! 

In my case, dealing with 10lbs means only 4lbs on the hitch. The spreadsheet is being built with entries and constants. 

Entries being weight and distance being added or subtracted in location there of. Constant is axle to hitch and starting weight. Your advise to measure each meant a lot and truly learned from that. 

I just don't wish to forget to thank you for your input!

You want to set up "stations" (aka "moment arms"), or distances from the "datum", which is a fixed reference location. In this case you are using the axle location as the datum. Then when you change the weight loaded at each station the spreadsheet will do the multiplication and addition of all the moments, then divide the total by the station for the hitch to get the weight being added or subtracted there. If you make all the stations aft of the axle negative then the math will work out. 

You can also subtract from the baseline weight at each station by putting a "negative weight" at that station. The math works for that too. In my case my baseline hitch weight included 250 lbs of water in the fresh water tank at the beginning of a boon dock trip.  Worst case I assume all that water moves aft to the gray tank for the return trip. That alone changes my tongue weight by 3%, so I worked on load distribution to get my starting hitch weight at about 14% and ending hitch weight at about 11%.  That keeps everything within limits, but doesn't leave much room for any unanticipated load changes. 

Thus, my added weight to counter balance is 107#'s, distance hitch to axle being 156" and load area behind axle being 66"

107 x 156 / 66 = 253#'s of gear to counter balance the added 107#'s on the hitch I added.

The 107#'s added to hitch comes from 136#'s of battery X Battery to axle 123" / hitch to axle 156"

136 x 123 / 156 = 107

I will get this right sooner or later... With your help of course! 

My approach to this (first is get it right) is to fully understand how I'm loading and what I'm placing for weight where and effect on my hitch (and of course axle).

By the example I did above. My batteries weigh 136#'s. With OG showing how to determine what is happening where (by moments) I can see 107#'s added to the hitch and only 29#'s back on the axle. 

As OG mentioned. If your TV can handle the additional weight, then your go to go and you increase your axle weight by so little.

I have a garage unit (182g) so a lot of my gear goes out back. To me, I put X#'s being that axle it's equal on the axle. I'm looking at 253#'s of gear behind the axle (in my storage area) to counter the additional I placed on the hitch. 

For me, right now I'm adding 282#'s on my axle. Not hard to load the gear back there. Heck, pretty close to just running with a full tank of fresh water for me..

I just realized I need another column for sub-totals..

I get that part pretty well now. I believe Jato is referring to weight on the axle as making no difference. As he said, loaded behind the axle.

To that, I believe him correct. Makes no difference (that I can see) where it's placed (behind the axle) as far as just weight to axle.

If I'm wrong in this please correct. I want this spreadsheet right. 

So say if you add 100 lbs 4 feet behind the axle and the axle to hitch distance is 13 ft then you have reduced the hitch weight by 100*4/13=31 lbs. So to net out the new trailer total weight the axle weight has to go up by 100+31=131 lbs. 

If instead you add the 100 lbs 4 ft in front of the axle then the hitch weight is increased by the 31 lbs so the axle weight only goes up 100-31=69 lbs. 

Make sense? 

Scary, but yes it does! 

I just saw that in the spreadsheet for the hitch and forgot to add the weight to the axle. As I understand, the battery of 136#'s netted out 107#'s to the hitch, so adding 29#'s to the axle. 

Probably best to ask by showing to hopefully explain better.

* The first part is the Battery Distance x Battery weight / distance of hitch to axle. Resulting in 107#'s to the hitch and 29#'s to the axle.

* Second part is the new hitch weight x distance to axle / distance to load. Resulting in 253#'s to counter balance the 107#'s.

The second part is my worried about part.. 

Shame the cell colors don't come through..

I've now past the axle and working aft. In the 182g I have a upper bunk which I remove and add a rear corner cabinet. 

This has brought on a interesting situation and as I think of it it applies to some of the fore weight as well. That is factoring weight per side on the axle. 

Being the slide side is probably heavy from just that, then add frig goodies and my pantry (your Micro) this seems to be fairly important. Especially since my issue was the frame on slide side.

Why do I have this feeling OG has a formula for just that.. I do not mean to put you on the spot, yet you do really understand these things. So I guess I do.. and it is so appreciated. 

So far the numbers are coming out heavier than I weighed in at, yet not quite done and seem to be on track. 

Goal for me is to get to my factored hitch weight 400#'s (or up to 420#'s). With all said and done right now, I'm looking at 281#'s of gear in the garage (or storage under). Which I highly doubt I now carry. I may just throw the spare back in the trailer and open up some cargo area in the Tacoma. 

Onward I go!

  

What is your Taco's hitch weight limit? Do you really need to keep the hitch weight down to 420 lbs?  

I don't have a handle on the side to side weight distribution on the axle. I do agree that the slide side is almost certainly heavier, numerous ppl have noticed that that side rides lower on their pods, and its my impression that there have been more axle failures on that side. The thing that is needed is for someone to actually measure their side to side weight balance. That's not so easy. It could be done with individual wheel scales or (maybe) with a Sherline with a board on top using legos to get each trailer wheel on there one at a time. 

Wow, this is very interesting and you are taking it to a level that I am going to need more time to digest.  In the meantime I have a tee time for golf at 10 am, while my wife is waiting to go camping and then we will camp this Friday thru Sunday morning in Kingsley (MI).  Come home for a day and then leave again Monday morning for our last r-pod gathering with other podders near Roscommon at S. Higgens Lake State Park for a few days.  NO SNOW FORECAST ! so that is a good thing.  Problem is that for the 30 days we were gone in September in CO and UT we had bountiful sunshine EVERY day, man did we get spoiled!  Then back to gloomy northern Michigan.  We are about ready to go back west again, as you can imagine if you live in this neck of the woods. 

Back to the topic at hand,  Keep the posts rolling, I am learning a lot here, thank you all for all your expertise, hopefully this brain will be able to retain more than a trace of what has been shared thus far.

Here's a thought experiment that hopefully will make it easier to understand what's going on with trailer weight and balance. 

A 200 lb dad makes his 100 lb kid a teeter totter. For the sake of making the numbers easy let's say the teeter is a 16 foot board and assume its weight is negligible. 

Now, the kid sits on the left end of the teeter and lifts his feet. What happens? The rule is that both the forces and moments (torques) on the teeter have to end up netting out to zero for it to be stationary and stable.

So, the kid lifting his feet is applying a 100lb x 8ft = 800ft-lb torque due to gravity to the teeter. His weight forces it to swing counter clockwise till his feet touch the ground again. He will end up with 100 lbs of force pushing up on his feet to counteract the 100 lbs from gravity forcing it down. Net torque (moment) = 0 so nothing is rotating. 

Total net force on the teeter also has to be zero or it will either lift in the air or dig itself into the ground. Since the teeter plus kid weigh 100 lbs and the ground is pushing up on his feet with 100 lb force to counteract the torque, the forces are balanced too, and so there is zero force required on the teeter pivot. 

Now, let's say the dad gets on. Being a savvy guy on teeters, he sits 4 feet out from the pivot and lifts his feet. What happens?

He is now imposing a clockwise torque of 200 lbs x 4 ft = 800 ft-lb on the teeter due to gravity. This exactly balances the kids 800 ft-lb counterclockwise torque so the kid can lift his feet and the teeter doesn't rotate. 

But what about the forces? There is now 300 lbs gravity force on the teeter from the weight of the two ppl on it, but neither one's feet are touching. So, were does the force get countered? By the pivot of course, which now has to push up with 300 lbs force. So the force on the pivot just went from zero to 300 lbs. even though we only added 200 lbs of weight. 

This is whats going on with the rPod when you add weight aft (the dad) to try to reduce the hitch weight (the kid). The load on the pivot (the axle) goes up by the added weight plus the reduced weight on the hitch. 

That's why its not such a great idea to add a lot of weight aft to reduce hitch weight. Its kinda self defeating at some point because it can quickly overload the axle.  

It also increases the "polar moment of inertia" which is a measure of a vehicle's resistance to turning/sway. That's why the best handling sports cars are mid engine designs, by keeping most of the weight near the middle of the car its easier to get it to turn.  By having lots of weight out at the far ends its both harder to get a trailer to start swaying but more importantly its harder to get it to stop swaying once it starts.  

So, I think the approaches to reduce hitch weight (in my order of preference) are

1) leave stuff at home

2) move stuff from the front of the trailer to in front of the tow vehicle rear axle (the most lightly loaded axle on the rig is the front axle of the TV). 

3) move stuff from the front of the trailer nearer to but in front of the trailer axle. 

4) move stuff from the front of the trailer to behind the trailer axle. 

First up is my results of of now.

Next is a sample of fore axle item

Then a aft axle item

Still need to work coloring of cells.. Yellow being input cells, light blue as informative and green as important results.

I found that if I inputed 'aft' of axle as a negative, the formula's worked. Yet still required inverting to positive in one of the result cells. I'll work on that formula so that's not required.. Actually didn't think of how till I wrote this.. Ya, for me I have to write things out to 'see' what I need to do.

Anywho. You can see where I'm at and got there fairly quick. Results section is the most important to me! 400lbs of items, placed accordingly and I have 619lbs on the axle. WOW! I going to hookup tomorrow and run to the dump and hit the scales. Really need at this point to factor a correct baseline. Right now I have my baseline at 2800lbs (remember, I was stripped further tan what factory calls empty).

More to come!

The biggest thing 'I' see immediately, is working on my battery base! It changes so much so quickly!

I have a 38ah lithium that I do use, yet working out how to make it 'house' on the tongue and larger capacity elsewhere.. Hmm.. Now I can play with this and 'know' what the results could be. 

What I really like about the spreadsheet, is I can work items into places and see the effect on both the axle & the tongue. I am having fun with this and loading accordingly.

I have decided that the dual 6v's are coming off and my small lithium (40ah) issuing in the camper as house power. So I ran numbers..

The spot I've chosen is the compartment of the water & trailer heaters. I have space there. Though now is I could easily buy another (when the sale happens) and double up to 80ah. I'd be very happy with that!

Next is the spare is now in the camper (instead of the truck bed) and under the rear bunk (182g here). With the batteries of the hitch frame, I can now get my bike there (which I've always wanted to bring along). 

With all these changes, I fall right into where I hoped to be. 420lbs on the hitch & 3320lbs on the axle. 12% hitch weight! I put just my Curt Sway (maybe even sell my E2 WDH) and I'm rock n rolling again with even more cargo space in the TV!

   

Wow, did I over-estimate my base weight.. My weight on axle was lower than what I estimated the base at.. Anywho, all is good now with 'real' base numbers! This is partially loaded. First section is actual weights, second section is the math. 

I will continue to weigh as I finish loading, yet I can see where I'm headed now. About 3100#'s on the axle and 475#'s on the hitch. 

Here's where my curiosity on switching to lithium comes in for me. The weight savings allows me to put the bikes on the trailer (where the batteries were) and puts me right at 3K on the axle and 435#'s on the hitch. And I still have 100ah capacity!! Win, win! 

Hear ya, I did somewhat the same, yet hit the scales before I left. I just needed to know.

With what I just went through with my frame, I needed to know more. With this spreadsheet I can say what I have without doubt. What I do see was I was heavy on the tongue a bit, yet still light on the axle.

I built this spreadsheet for me. Ya, selfless and self bearing. Hopefully it can help another. This is part of understanding why my frame not only bent, but fractured. I weighed in at 3200 lbs at most on departure, yet mis-factored my tongue weight. I don't believe that caused the issue yet still working through understanding all parts of this. I truly don't wish anyone to go through what I have if it's preventable. 

Mounting a bike rack up front, going to dual 6's, adding that second propane tank, carrying whatever/where-ever does mean quite a it. It amazed me how much it means. 

What happened to me, as I'm seeing, was not a singular incident. Situations, bumps, whatever's accumulating to the result. I believe now it is so important to know what you carry, what it's doing and how to place it. 

Just me.. MHO... Wishing no one else goes through what I did.

     

I do not wish to pass it Publicly until it's been proofed and 'all' agree. There's enough BS out there, as I do not wish this to become part of, I feel we need something that actually shows/works. 

At this point the math will show what leaving a full beer on the counter means.. That is if you measure correctly and weigh correctly.

Those interested, contact me.