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Topic ClosedCreating a No-Fuss DC Supply

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granlobo View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Creating a No-Fuss DC Supply
    Posted: 25 Jun 2014 at 12:22pm
Dear members,

Thanks for all of your excellent contributions to the forum!  I've learned so much reading your thoughtful entries.  

My wife and I are soon to purchase a 172 and I'd greatly appreciate your insights concerning the DC power supply.  

Background:  After 7 years of moderate-to-critical struggles, our Make-a-Wish child is doing much better...able to take trips without a lot of special equipment...and ready to get out into the world and make up for lost time spent in hospitals and at home.  :)  

Given our family circumstances, we're not "campground" people.  Crowds, strangers, and especially environments where people are drinking are things we need to avoid.  Therefore, we expect to primarily "dry camp" whenever possible...dispersed-camping sites approved by the state DCNR...the quieter, "no hookup" sections of state parks where a small TT is permissible, dispersed sites within the nearby national forest, etc.  

(Disclaimer: I know that I should learn by experience.  I know that I should "get out there and camp" before worrying about mods to our unit.  I know I'm being impatient and probably not as fiscally responsible as I could be.  I also know that we love our kid and want to make our unit as functional and reliable for him as possible, within our ability.)  Smile

A few things regarding which I'd appreciate your insights/expertise:

A) I know we're going to have to purchase a generator if we want to run the A/C unit.  This is important, because our son requires a consistent, temperature-regulated environment.  It looks like an "inverter generator" is the way to go...quieter for him...more efficient...etc.  I've read that the pod A/C unit draws anywhere from 1200 to 1800 Watts...would you feel comfortable with a 2000W generator?  2200W are also feasible for us if you thought it would make a difference.  The 3000W+ are just not "in the cards" for us.  

B) Regarding the battery...I hate to be wasteful, but I want something dependable that I don't have to worry about, provided I follow maintenance protocols.  I'd also prefer to stick with 12V batteries (and not the dual-sixes), as one of them already comes with the unit.  

If the truth is that buying a 2nd battery will get us safely through a 4-5 day trip without obsessing over DC consumption...and that's it...I'd rather take that route.  When the first one hits 50%, pop it out, replace it with the other, and begin re-charging the first one as soon as possible?  

What about a dual-12V configuration with two 12V batteries wired in parallel on the tongue of the trailer?  Twice the capacity...still 12V.  Does this invalidate the on-board battery monitor?  How would it know that you've got "twice the capacity" versus the original, single battery?  Have to monitor by hand with a voltmeter instead of using the on-board indicator?  

Leave it as a single battery with a 120 Watt solar panel attached throughout our stay?  Could it continuously re-charge the battery while the battery is in service...or would it have to be disconnected from the DC system of the TT first?  Is this a viable means of prolonging (observably) the "safe operating 50%" of the battery?  More fuss than it's worth?  

I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this.  I want to find the most reliable, no-fuss way to make sure that we're going to make it through a long weekend without ending up in the dark or needing to head home unexpectedly.  Our situation is definitely not in the mold of "2 careful, energy-conserving adults"...we have 2 kids and a light will get left on at some point...the water pump will get left on for an afternoon before I notice it...someone will leave the fan running in the lavatory, etc.  

Money is a consideration...but if putting $300-$500+ into our power system makes it "fool-proof" for us and keeps us out there as a family, it would be the best money we ever spent.  

Thanks!  
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Tars Tarkas View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2014 at 1:24pm
Some thoughts: a generator and a solar panel are a bit like belts and suspenders.  It might be occasionally useful to have them both, but one or the other will do the same job.  The battery will be recharging anytime you are using the generator.

A 2000w generator might work or might not.  Yamaha makes a 2400w generator that runs my air con just fine.

Generators though are prohibited altogether in some areas of some campgrounds and they are often prohibited during quiet hours, which vary from campground to campground.  No air con at night, most likely.

Four to five days is probably not doable without a generator.  Solar is quiet and more passive but it isn't cheap and it depends on sunlight, which can be iffy in the shade of the trees in forest service campgrounds.  It would probably get you through a week of boondocking in a sunny campground but it won't run the air conditioner and it's just something else to fool with.

If you don't have LED lights already, make that switch.  No harm if the water pump switch is left on; it only runs on demand.  But that's another issue.  With 2 adults and 2 kids you will be pushing it to get through a week without more than the water and sewer on board.

TT
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2014 at 4:21pm
Alright, here are some thoughts from someone who regularly dry camps:

For A/C on a generator: yes while running, the A/C draws about 1400 watts.  *BUT*, the startup draws in the 2200-2600 watt neighbourhood.  And, this is somewhat dependant on ambient temperature (the hotter it is outside, the more power is required to start pushing coolant through those coils).  For a no-fuss, first timer: if you want to run your A/C, then a 2400 Watt inverter generator is required at a minimum.  (It is possible to use a 2000 watt generator if you swap out your A/C's start capacitor with a much bigger one - but I suspect that may be a bit beyond you at the moment, and depending on your generator it may be iffy it/when it works).

If you just want to be able to recharge your battery, then a 1000 watt inverter generator is a much lighter, cheaper, very satisfactory option.  But, please, stick with an inverter generator (regardless of the brand) - you're running electronics, not power tools.

Yes, you can simultaneously charge while using a battery.  Doesn't matter if its solar, generator, or from an electrical outlet.

Solar is great - depending on your latitude (obviously, its more effective the farther south you are), the weather, and your camping style.  If you like camping in the woods, or in a frequently rainy/overcast area, then solar may not be for you.  When sizing your solar, consider that you'll need a system thats able to replenish 20-30 amps per day.

On a group 24 battery, expect to get 3 days in the summer, 1-2 days in the spring/fall (when you're using your furnace).  Heavy furnace use, or if you have other electrical draws will also diminish battery life.  Also, swap out your interior bulbs with LEDs.  Its a bit expensive - but its well worth the effort.

If you're considering dual batteries, remember: both batteries MUST be of the same manufacturer and age.  A pair of 6 volt golf cart batteries are a very effective, very easy, very no-fuss solution for off-grid camping (which will supply 5-6 days of power).  BTW, if you're concerned about the cost of replacing a piddly little $70 stock battery - woooo, boy are you looking at the wrong hobby.
Craig :: 2009 RP171 towed by a 2017 F150
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2014 at 4:57pm
If air conditioning is a must have, then a generator is your only option. BUT, most campgrounds restrict their use at night. A 2400w is the minimum I would choose to be sure of starting the a/c.The generator can and will recharge the batteries while it runs.

I would.. well did, add a voltmeter rather than use the monitor panel, BUT the monitor panel doesn't care what batteries you have hooked up, or what configuration, as long as it is a "12volt" system. It simply reads the voltage. 2 12vs, or 2 6's.. it just goes by voltage. 2 6's usually get you more available aH's. If staying with 12v's, dual Group 27 batteries fit the factory rack/boxes, and have more aH's than Group 24's.

If the temps are mild, we can do 5 days plus on our dual Group 27 12v (never gone beyond 5 days.. hey, we got jobs..). If we need to run heat at night, we may lose a day or maybe two, depending on temps. Fridge and WH on gas, we have full LED lighting.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2014 at 4:58pm
Thanks, TT and Craig!  

I'll go with the LED replacement for sure.  

I agree about the redundancy and limitations of the solar...thanks for your excellent points.  Glad that Craig suggested the smaller inverter generator...sounds like that's just what we need.  

I'll look back into the dual 6V battery configuration.  The $70 stock battery is not a big deal...I had been under the impression that the Amp*hour rating on it was much higher and that I was dealing with a $250+ battery...which would be wasteful to merely toss aside.  

Thanks again and happy travels!  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2014 at 5:21pm
Also, here is a good link, some info is a little behind the times, but the main meat of the 12v world has been the same for a long time..

http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2014 at 7:25pm
I generally agree with the suggestions made.  Forget the 2nd battery since you must have a generator, I'm not sure I would swap out the lights for LEDs since you'll likely be running the generator every day - you won't have to conserve.  Double-check the battery your dealer put on.  Often they slap on the cheapest automotive battery they can buy.  If it isn't a deep cycle battery, go ahead and use it until it dies (which won't take long), then make sure you buy a deep cycle next time.
Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2014 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by Outbound

*(It is possible to use a 2000 watt generator if you swap out your A/C's start capacitor with a much bigger one *).*


Have you done this? That is very interesting. Maybe another thread on this...

Thanks
Cary
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granlobo View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2014 at 8:26pm
[QUOTE=furpod]Also, here is a good link, some info is a little behind the times, but the main meat of the 12v world has been the same for a long time..

http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm
[/QUOTE

Wow!  That's the stuff right there...thank you so much!  Helps to really understand what you're contemplating!  What a great resource!  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2014 at 8:30pm
Thanks, Doug.  I've only "known" you for a short time...but you're the real deal.  Thanks for the information and for your kind demeanor in dealing with "new" people.  You remind me of some of the kind, helpful "Harley" people I grew up with, and not the "others".  Smile
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