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Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Location: MD
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Posts: 9059 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Portable Generator
    Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 3:03pm
I just read your last post and I stand by what I said.  Camper converters are just very large computer power supplies, plus battery chargers, plus AC breaker boxes all combined into one.  You could even swap in an actual computer power supply as your 12 volt source to run the lights, fridge controls, fan, furnace, etc.  The WFCO converter in our pods will work just fine from any genset with 120 volt output.  Even one made 25 years ago.  Smile
Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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Posts: 9059 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by Camper Bob

yn I understand the fluctuation in voltage, however, the shape of the syn wave cycle is the concern.  Non-inverter gensets create a square wave rather than a pure syn wave output. 
 
Happy to say that is incorrect.  All rotary generators (a.k.a. non-inverter) produce sine wave output, due to the rotation of the drive shaft.  Pure physics in motion.  The problem of a distorted sine wave (not a square wave) occurs in smaller gensets, even inverter gensets, because loads that will distort the sine wave tend to be a much larger percentage of the total load when you are running a 1 or 2 kw genset.  These loads include things that people often want to run when the utility power is out, such as refridgerators and window A/C units (inductive loads).
Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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Joined: 26 Sep 2011
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Posts: 913 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 11:11am
Well after chatting with tech support at WFCO it turns out that the units are very sensitive to "dirty" power.  So in a nutshell I cannot use our old Honda generator for the RV.  May have to check into a new Honda.  Superb engines, super quiet and reliable.  Oh well.  Thanks everyone for their input.  Safe Travels.
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Joined: 26 Sep 2011
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Posts: 913 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 9:15am
Your probably right.  However, this one was built about 25 years ago before much of the sensitive was made.  You can certainly purchase inexpensive generators today  that don't have the filtering built in to create perfect syn waves.  A little technical but there it is.  Will report when I speak to Honda and WFCO.
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Posts: 1447 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 8:45am
I would be amazed if any of the quality generators these days didn't produce clean enough power for most any normal home type use.  They would be out of business soon if they blew up computers and televisions, as common as they are today. 
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Joined: 26 Sep 2011
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Posts: 913 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 11:32pm
yn I understand the fluctuation in voltage, however, the shape of the syn wave cycle is the concern.  Non-inverter gensets create a square wave rather than a pure syn wave output.  There is the problem, as I understand it.  According to my electronics schooling ala the U.S. Navy electronics school in Millington, Tenn. in 1964, I do remember the concerns of square wave outputs.  As transistors came into being they require a much "cleaner," or pure syn wave output to operate.  Not sure that my laptop manufacturer has added enough filtering in its power supply to accomodate "dirty" power.  In any event, my plan tomorrow is to contact Honda and inquire about the output of the EX 1000 and then to contact the inverter manufacturer that FR is using to get their info.  Will report back as soon as I hear.  Thanks for your input.  Just want to be sure before I plug in a new laptop.  Safe Travels!! 
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Posts: 9059 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 8:57pm

Actually its a big myth that computers - and most other modern electronics - can't handle the rough output from a non-inverter genset.  Computer power supplies must handle wide voltage inputs (roughly 100 to 250 volts) so only their plugs must be changed when sold in different world markets.  So they can handle wide voltage fluctuations from a genset.  They are designed to maintain a steady DC output even with wide AC fluctuations and even brief dropouts due to their filtering and rectification circuitry.
Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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Joined: 25 Jul 2011
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Posts: 6128 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 7:02pm
We just added a couple 12v plugs, then use a 400w inverter if the 'puter needs a charge, or what have you.

I stole power in the front from the propane detector, and in the rear from the heater fan motor power.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 5:24pm
Yes, the WFCO converter does have a 3 stage built in charger for the battery.  I think Outbound speaks wisely in checking with them regarding using the generator with that unit.  Like him, I don't know how well it would "cope" with "rough" power directly to it.  I agree in checking with them for advise.  I'm guessing, since it is somewhat "smart", it may have some "sensitive electronics" it it????
 
Another method I have used is to connect jumper cables to the tow vehicle and the camper battery and let the TV idle for about an hour.  Turn on the headlights so that the alternator output will be high.  Yes, there is (supposed to be) a 12vdc line in your Bargman connector but, the wire is usually small enough and the lenght long enough that it really doesn't do a good job of charging the camper battery unless driving for a few hours.  If you are running your fridge on battery while driving, you may not get much of a charge at all, as the fridge uses a lot of power when on 12vdc.
 
Hopefully, someone with a 171 will post soon with a suggestion on the best place/way to get 12vdc where you need it.
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Joined: 26 Sep 2011
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Posts: 913 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 2:38pm
David:  Excellent advice.  This is why you get the big money.  I did not order our 171 with a tv antenna.  Sooo, will have to install a 12v line for an inverter.  Probably the cheapest way to go.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the built in inverter have a charge line for the battery.  My understanding is when the trailer is plugged into 110 there is also a battery charging circuit for the trailer battery. 
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