ELECTRIC ? - Event Date: 14 Jan 2023

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   LA, of course the NEC is not in itself legally enforceable, the NFPA which administers it is a private entity with no legal standing. Enforcement lies with the AHJ in each community where it has been adopted. That entity has the final word.That's why they call it the authority having jurisdiction.  Anyone is free to call their AHJ anytime and ask for a waiver of whatever Code provision you want. Who knows, you might get lucky. 
Where it seems we don't agree is whether or not Article 334.40(b) itself is not clear regarding the use of NM cable splice products. It is. They can be used for repair or in an exposed location for new wiring, not for new wiring when concealed inside a wall.
BTW thanks for the insult to all the hard working people from industry, safety, science, engineering, contracting, and government who work hard and mostly thanklessly to filter, write and maintain the Code. I guess we need to add attorneys to the committees because without them we couldn't possibly write a proper English sentence. OTOH if we did add lawyers we'd never get anything done because they would argue with each other incessantly.

I think we've beaten this proverbial horse to death. We don't even know if Hogone's existing Romex will reach his new box location.

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offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Post Options Post Reply Quote offgrid Report Post Quote Reply Calendar Event: ELECTRIC ? Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 4:33am
	LA, of course the NEC is not in itself legally enforceable, the NFPA which administers it is a private entity with no legal standing. Enforcement lies with the AHJ in each community where it has been adopted. That entity has the final word.That's why they call it the authority having jurisdiction. Anyone is free to call their AHJ anytime and ask for a waiver of whatever Code provision you want. Who knows, you might get lucky. Where it seems we don't agree is whether or not Article 334.40(b) itself is not clear regarding the use of NM cable splice products. It is. They can be used for repair or in an exposed location for new wiring, not for new wiring when concealed inside a wall. BTW thanks for the insult to all the hard working people from industry, safety, science, engineering, contracting, and government who work hard and mostly thanklessly to filter, write and maintain the Code. I guess we need to add attorneys to the committees because without them we couldn't possibly write a proper English sentence. OTOH if we did add lawyers we'd never get anything done because they would argue with each other incessantly. I think we've beaten this proverbial horse to death. We don't even know if Hogone's existing Romex will reach his new box location.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

lostagain Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587	Post Options Post Reply Quote lostagain Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 5:44am
	Oh, please, OG, people have been trying to write rules for all of written human history and very few have succeeded in writing with perfect clarity. Engineers and technical people are no more perfect than the rest of us. Not to be religious, but they are no more infallible than the pope. And, yes, when there is lack of clarity, it's the lawyers to whom people turn to fight over it.
	Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Post Options Post Reply Quote offgrid Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 8:20am
	LA, this is what you said yesterday: "Few codes are well written and most are loaded with ambiguity for inartfully chosen words". Today's version: "....very few have succeeded in writing with perfect clarity. Engineers and technical people are no more perfect than the rest of us." While the former is both inaccurate and insulting, the latter is certainly true, so I'll happily accept that modification to your previous "inartfully chosen words".
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Pod People Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 22 Sep 2011 Location: Chapel Hill,NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 1067	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pod People Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 9:55am
	I don't want to get in the middle of this words tangle, but............... I was a Licensed General Contractor in NC for 35 years and owned a residential construction company. I can ASSURE all of you that individual city/county inspectors have a LOT of latitude in interpreting the codes they are paid to enforce. I worked in multiple cities and multiple county jurisdictions and experienced firsthand differing interpretations of the same code depending on the inspector. codes are written, but inspectors decide what is acceptable or not depending on their interpretation of what is written. Travel often and safe Vann
	Vann & Laura 2015 RPod 179

hogone Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 09 Apr 2013 Location: St. Louis Online Status: Offline Posts: 1042	Post Options Post Reply Quote hogone Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 12:37pm
	you guys (OG/LA) need to go out and smoke a big old doobie and relax man!! this was meant to be a friendly/simple inquiry. now maybe thats a subject we should debate!! jpp
	Jon & Pam 2013 RP177 2010 F150 2017 HD Streetglide 2009 HD Lowrider CHEESEHEAD

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Post Options Post Reply Quote offgrid Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 1:53pm
	We're all good Hogone, LA and I actually respect each other's opinions, we're just old and get cantankerous at times. As for smoking a doob, the older I get the more I feel the need to keep the brain cells I have left over from having grown up in NorCal. So I don't smoke anything anymore unfortunately....
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

lostagain Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587	Post Options Post Reply Quote lostagain Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 3:31pm
	Yes, OG and I are just two argumentative grumpy old men, but we don't take each other too seriously. It's just a game of the "dozens." As for smoking, never have been a fan. I did inhale a few times, but it was almost half a century ago.
	Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost

hogone Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 09 Apr 2013 Location: St. Louis Online Status: Offline Posts: 1042	Post Options Post Reply Quote hogone Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 4:46pm
	nazereth concerts were awesome. jon
	Jon & Pam 2013 RP177 2010 F150 2017 HD Streetglide 2009 HD Lowrider CHEESEHEAD

gpokluda Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 Nov 2018 Location: NM Online Status: Offline Posts: 275	Post Options Post Reply Quote gpokluda Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 5:55pm
	Nazareth was pretty darn good, but the Meatloaf Bat Out of Hell Tour was what rock dreams are made of.
	Gpokluda 2017 Rpod 179(sold 2023) 2022 Escape 5.0TA 2022 Ford F150 4X4 3.5EB Triumph T120

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Post Options Post Reply Quote offgrid Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 1:31am
	The Airplane. May 67. Coconut Grove, Santa Cruz. Strobes and mesc. Surrealistic Pillow hadn't been released yet, so it was my first time hearing Grace Slick belt out White Rabbit. An experience never to be forgotten, or equalled either. I guess at this point though Im mostly just glad I survived that crazy time....
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold