Changing times |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
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Topic: Changing times Posted: 14 Jun 2022 at 1:22pm |
We don't have to wait. We already know. I've already provided multiple links to actual data refuting your statements, and I've worked as an engineer, project manager, and business development manager in this specific field for over 40 years. You have provided zero supporting evidence for your statements. As GG says, it is best to do a little research before making obviously incorrect proclamations. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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GlueGuy
Senior Member Joined: 15 May 2017 Location: N. California Online Status: Offline Posts: 2630 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2022 at 10:01am |
That is so very wrong. In this area, we already have way more than 2 per block. In fact, in several areas I know there have almost an EV in every other house. I know a few people who own two EVs by themselves. You need to get informed before making such obviously wrong proclamations.
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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
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StreetSweeper
Newbie Joined: 05 May 2022 Location: Texas Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2022 at 9:34am |
I worked in the industry for decades, I guess we'll see who's mis-informed.
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"SWIZZLE STICK"
'22 #171 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon |
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6289 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2022 at 9:16am |
And there's the rub. Production of the lithium used in batteries requires LOTS of fossil fuel as does the copper, nickle, and other materials. Plastics needed to make things lighter (those batteries are quite heavy) take petroleum products. Solar panels take lots of energy to produce also, even if they now do return more energy than they used to. Then there is the water use, the environmental damage, and the conditions under which these materials are mined/produced. And another article. Not to mention that the range issue of EVs still is an issue. They are still best for in and around city use, not for the cross-country trips like the 6,100 mile one we just completed.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2022 at 6:32am |
Wow I haven't seen so much misinformation in a single paragraph in a long time. Here are some facts, Google them up yourself if you want. Energy payback period (the time it takes for the project to return the energy used to produce it) of wind generation: less than 1 year Energy payback period of photovoltaic (solar) generation: less than 2 years. And of course if the equipment was produced using renewable energy to being with then there is zero net carbon production. So the answer to where the energy will come from is renewables. It is happening as we speak. Renewables (wind and solar) accounted for 81% if the 28 GW of new installed electrical capacity in the US in 2021. Renewables are over 25% of total capacity now. An additional 30 GW of renewables is expected this year of which more than half will be solar. These prohects are private investments, no one would be installing them if they wasn't "there yet", whatever that means. Far from considering new coal projects coal plants are being retired rapidly, they are not economically viable relative to renewables or natural gas. I agree with you re nuke plants, it is possible for them to be operated safely, the French and the US Navy have demonstrated that with the right management structure and training it can be done. It is human error that has caused the infamous accidents that have led to the demise of that industry (except for Chernobyl which was caused by both human error and a terrible plant design). Whether this could be done properly in our deregulated and highly fragmented electrical generation system is highly debatable. You do know that the TMI operators were indicted for falsifying safety test results? I wouldn't want to rely on ERCOT to manage more of them for example. But the bottom line is that no one wants a nuke in their back yard. They are extremely expensive plants as well, far more expensive than renewables (about 5 to 10x higher just in installed cost, not counting operation and fuel costs) so investors won't touch them. There have been zero new nuke plants started in this country since Three Mile Island. So coal is dying and nuclear is dead, the good hydro sites are already in use, or are simply not available in many parts of the country. New generation will be renewables and natural gas for the forseeable future. Even if all US cars changed to EVs overnight the grid can easily handle charging them. You are assuming that all EVs will be charged at the same time and that will coincide with the afternoon and evening load peak. That is simply not the case, EVs can charge overnight when demand is low. Many if not most utilities have tariffs set up for for that already. And of course it will be many years before the transition to elecric is completed. The transmission and distribution infrastructure can handle it fine. EV transition Charging EVs at home is done via a level 2 charger which requires a 50A 240V circuit. Not a big deal to install unless you only have a 100A service. The "holy grail" is using EVs as distributed energy storage. This will allow much deeper penetration of renewables because the storage mitigates the intermittency of the renewable resources. The typical EV battery has enough capacity to run a residence for several days and far more than enough to shift solar output a few hours so it can councide with the late sfternoon load peak. This requires a bidirectional charger/inverter. Ford will be the first in this country to offer this equipment along with the F150 Lightning. Nissan has been doing this in Japan for many years, but not here. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2022 at 5:09am |
Not sure what research you did but when I did mine several years ago I bought a self driven walk behind electric mower which easily did my 1/2 acre suburban lot. Steep slopes too. If you need to do a larger area then just buy a second battery, takes 2 seconds to swap. Zero maintenance and no stinky messy fuel cans to fill.
Then we moved to a small farm and I bought an electric riding mower which easily does my 1 acre lawn area, also steep. I now have an electric string trimmer, chainsaw leaf blower, limbing saw, and hedge trimmer. All of them work great, use the same batteries, and are more than capable of the maintainance demands of my 25 acres. Well maybe not the chainsaw it has an 18 inch bar so if I ever have a really large tree to cut up then I might need to borrow something larger. Electric splitter and pressure washer too but those are plug ins. The only gasoline tool I still have is a chipper, it's old and I'll probably replace it soon with an electric one, or fit it with and electric motor. Electric mowers aren't ready for my 14 acres of pasture though, I have an old Ford diesel tractor with a 6 ft bush hog for that. Electric tractors are coming, multiple companies are working on them, electric motors are idea for tractors because of their high torque. But new tractors are too expensive for my budget. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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David and Danette
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 24 Nov 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1215 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2022 at 3:19am |
I had been recently shopping for a new walk behind mower and was surprised to find the number of electric mowers. More electric mowers on display than gasoline mowers but after researching and reading reviews electric mowers made no sense for our 1/2 acre lot. As with motor vehicles the range of operation is the problem and the lifespan of batteries and the cost to replace them. I ended up buying another gasoline mower that's what sense. And mentioning power grids capable of handling charging motor vehicles you will have electric mowers needing to be charged too!
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2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019) 2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014) Middle Tn 2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab |
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StreetSweeper
Newbie Joined: 05 May 2022 Location: Texas Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 2022 at 1:34am |
I never worked in ERCOT though I am in Texas now. Curious where this excess energy will come from. It isn't windmills, those will never generate the power it took to create them. It's been made too expensive to build new coal fired plants. Nuclear, though safe and reliable has a bad reputation. Hydro is great but there isn't enough water in most of the country besides the uproar that would ensure building them. Solar has promise but it isn't there yet. It isn't just the generation either. The 12.5 distribution system couldn't handle the massive load draw. 34.5 can handle more but it's dangerous in distribution. The transformers at the subs will likely need upgrading as will the feeder transformers. Then there's the home. The vast majority of existing homes will need to be rewired for charging. Again, yes the existing system can handle the 1's and 2's but every home charging an EV? No, not presently; to make it work expect huge rate increases for a long time.
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"SWIZZLE STICK"
'22 #171 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 7:00pm |
The problem is that we don't really have a national grid in this country. We have a set of independent system operators (ISOs). ERCOT is the system operator for most of TX. It it unique in that it isn't even interconnected with the rest of the country.
Essentially TX decided to go it alone. As such they are not subject to FERC regulations, which are intended to provide grid security and reliability. The results of that decision are now pretty obvious. This is a pretty good explanation of how are grid is structured for anyone who wants to dig into it a bit. US Grid Explained |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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lostagain
Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 6:44pm |
Seems to me the issue is a moving target. Years ago, the three basic electric grids, east west and Texas, may not have been able to support EV charging in a massive scale. But so what? Electric vehicles are gradually being phased in and there are some pretty smart people making all kinds of changes to our electric grids, such as the ERCOT system, proffered by OG. But, there are a whole lot more and as EV's achieve greater and greater numbers, more and more changes to the grids, such as storage systems, more wind and solar generation, and even nuclear, that will be coming on line. We really need a national grid to fully take advantage of the wind and sunlight variations across our beautiful country. As we expand EV's, we will also evolve our grid to meet the demand.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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