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Changing times

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offgrid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Changing times
    Posted: 18 Jan 2022 at 4:56am
Originally posted by StephenH

Then I would be able to purchase one of those ICE vehicles and the taxes would not be that high either.



We are all readily able to come up with justifications for either continuing to do what we are doing or for changing. Humans are very very good at that.

So as always it boils down to what motivates one personally. These motivations are either helped or hindered by policy/incentives. Having worked in renewable energy for my whole career energy generation, transmission, and use is an area I both understand well and am passionate about. Others are indifferent or actively oppose changes. I'm not passing judgement on what's right or wrong here.

In the case of EVs however as I said before that particular ship appears to have sailed. There is a whole global economy in the midst of changing and the US is not leadng the charge. Asia and Europe are.

Sadly we as a country no longer appear to be able to align ourselves in the same direction (whatever that direction may be) as we used to be able to do. What might change that I don't know.

As for park congestion and deferred maintenance, that is the inevitable result of global population growth combined with a massive increase in affluence.

It is the same with pretty much all of our environmental resources, CO2 buildup, fresh water, fertile land, forests, fisheries, you name it.

In most of these areas humans are now depleting resources 3 or more times faster that they are getting regenerated. Obviously that is not sustainable, but, being humans, we are not well equipped to make the needed changes (some combination of more efficient use, reduced affluence, an/or reduced population) to try to solve these problems. So it will be solved for us at some point. Simple as that.

In the meantime expect parks to become yet more crowded and degraded. Placing more emphasis on visits to the less popular destinations helps spread out the demand. Leave the high season visits to the Yosemites, Yellowstones, and Smokies to others it's still possible to have a great experience at less popular destinations, many of them National Forest, state or local.



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David and Danette View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote David and Danette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2022 at 4:09am
   As Bob Dylan wrote the song The Times They Are A-Changin the population has grown camping has become more popular and there's more concern for the environment and seems like in some ways the government has not been able to keep up with the changes. And besides campgrounds Rest Areas are another example there is not enough room for trucks and RV's if you arrive after the sun goes down you may not find a place to park. I feel sorry for truck drivers they are tired and have no place to park and they are having to deal with this all year long.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 4:41pm
Then I would be able to purchase one of those ICE vehicles and the taxes would not be that high either.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 4:04pm
I too have a limited retirement transportation budget. Much of that is absorbed by my airplane, which cannot be electric at this point. Unlike road vehicles, where the weight of the vehicle does not have a great impact on efficiency, in aviation it's all about weight (drag governs as in road vehicles but drag is a function of weight and speed, unlike for road vehicles where it is independent of weight). Batteries are just too heavy and need to increase in energy density by at least a factor of two or three to be viable.

OTOH my towing requirements are no longer significant, mostly just local farm utility towing, so towing range is not a big deal. So I will be looking for either a used EV with moderate towing capacity and range, or alternatively an EV passenger car and a beater ICE pickup which here in Virginia I can simply label for farm use and avoid taxation issues.

I can sell our two ICE vehicles while they still hold velue to limit the expense involved. My concern is that when the tipping point in the transition to EVs the value of used ICE vehicles will drop precipitously.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 12:56pm
StephenH touched a problem that many of us face.  Lots of us are retired and our vehicle purchase options are limited.  I'd love to go out and buy one of the Ford EV -f-150's, but I'll be driving my Ecoboost until I stop towing a trailer because the purchase of a new $50K+ vehicle is simply not possible on my retirement income.  The same applies to our 2015 Mazda CX-5, I'm hoping it'll last until I'm no longer able to drive because I can't afford to replace it with an EV.   As Woody Guthrie once observed, it all boils down to: "if you ain't got the do re mi."
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 12:23pm
I agree for in-and-around town driving near home that EVs can be a good option. However, I have one vehicle. I do not have the room or the budget for two vehicles and don't want to pay the taxes (NC charges property tax annually on vehicles in addition to registration and license fees). It makes more sense for us to stick with ICE vehicles until such time as I feel that alternatives are viable for us or until I have to quit driving due to age and abilities, whichever comes first.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GlueGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 11:22am
People worried about range and charge times are not (yet) fully cognizant that you just don't drive and "fill up" an EV like you may have had to with an ICE vehicle. First you need to realize that you will never go to a gas station again. You will never change the oil or filters again. All of the people I know with an EV rarely use a "charging station", as they can fill up other places as part of their usual routine. They charge at home, they charge at the grocery store, they charge at work. Generally, charging happens when you're doing other things and you don't have to carve out time to do it.

Long distance trips will be different, but that will be more the exception than the rule.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 8:23am
Unless we start taking care of our state and national forests and parks, the whole issue may be moot.  You can have the most environmentally correct TV and RV available, but if all the campgrounds are full, there may be no place to go.  Parks have been neglected or made unaffordable for the common person for many years.  "There's nowhere to go and there's no where to bide, so farewell to the life of the rover."
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 8:05am
I think that is a non-starter for any light-weight trailer. It would also likely bring the cost of a trailer up to the cost of a motor home. It compounds the charging problem as then not only the tow vehicle would need to be charged, but the trailer's battery would need to be charged also. How long would that take? I think anyone in line to charge behind such a rig would be very unhappy.

Edit: Some interesting points were raised in the comments. Campgrounds would most likely install meters so that those who wanted to charge such vehicles and trailers would be paying for that privilege. As it is, a lot of campgrounds have power systems that are inadequate now. Add electric vehicle charging to the mix and what happens to the rates as owners now need to spend even more to upgrade the power in the parks. As for boondocking, the trailer might help get you there, but then you might be stuck since there would be no way to recharge either the vehicle or the trailer. As for using solar to charge them, how many panels would be needed to charge the batteries in a reasonable time? I am pretty sure my RPod would not be able to carry enough panels to charge such a setup. Carrying a generator to charge the batteries would seem to defeat the purpose of going with an EV also.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PilotPodder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 7:41am
Tony Barthel of RVTravel.com had an interesting article yesterday on how the RV industry is anticipating the new world of EV tow vehicles. It sheds light on the early thinking of the industry and their approach to tackling towing range declination for EVs. Basically, the trailer itself would become an EV with below-floor batteries and motors that power the trailer's wheels. This would then lessen the drag on the TV and potentially give back full range. 

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