Changing times

Having spent much of my career in solar fighting the utility companies' antiquated mindset, I completely agree. The traditional utilities are stuck with the idea that their revenue must come from power generation and so have usually viewed distributed renewables as competition and resisted them.

But that is different now in the open energy markets, PJM being the largest example. In those markets transmission, distribution and production of electricity have been separated, so it is very possible for an aggregator (for example Tesla) to sign up and sell distributed power and/or grid support services. That is likely going to be where the innovations happen first.

I also agree that while grid connected Li batteries can be deployed either distributed or centralized, it makes sense to distribute them. That way they can perform both a grid support function as well as provide their owners with autonomous operation when there are grid failures.

My point here is that if those batteries are also serving as EV storage, we have minimized the economic and environment impacts of deploying storage. The storage is needed so it's going to happen one way or another.

Distributed battery storage for grid support tests are expanding. Note the compensation and opt out incentives for the storage owners.

CA grid storage test

90+ percent of grid battery storage utilizes Li batteries, driven by volume and cost Li battery reduction from EV demand. 2.8 TWH Li battery annual production capacity is expected by 2025. All other battery options will be at best a tiny fraction of that figure.

For the US grid to be essentially 100% renewable we would need about 6TWH of storage capacity by 2050. Li is the only battery technology able to deliver the kind of scale needed soon enough, to think there will be any other alternative battery technology of sufficient scale in the next decade or longer is magical thinking. Investors have already placed their bets on Li.

To fill out the picture over 90% of grid storage is pumped hydro. Unfortunately, hydro sites are limited and dams and reservoirs suffer greatly from NIMBY so are hard to get approved and built. The DOE projects grid battery storage to become dominant by around the end of the decade.

If you think it's urgent to get battery grid storage in place at scale then you should strongly support dual use of EV batteries for grid storage, otherwise the environmental impacts will be significantly worse because battery capacity will be duplicated and far more batteries will be needed.    

That lithium batteries in EV's can alone provide enough storage for the world's electrical grids is utopian thinking.  Such a proposition fails to take into account that the approximately 2B ICE vehicles will be replaced gradually as they become affordable for individuals and institutions.  Until there is adequate density of EV batteries available to share on a "smart" charging system, there won't be enough storage to meet the storage requirements created by wind and solar generating systems (provided we construct these as fast as we should).  Such a proposition also assumes that everyone who has an EV will connect it to a "smart charging" system and share their batteries.  In as much as batteries have a life cycle of charging and discharging, there may be those who don't want to put their costly batteries through charge/discharge cycles on a public shared grid.  StephenH points out this problem and I think he is probably correct.  The article OG cited is an opinion, not a fact.  I hope it is true, but we cannot, as I stated before, put all our eggs in one basket.  

Add to that, And fusion energy is always just over the horizon.

Originally posted by lostagain Bottom line, lithium/nickel batteries alone can't do the job.  The supples of lithium and nickel are limited and the extraction process is very damaging to the environment.  Three quarters of the known lithium deposits are in Chile, Argentina, and Bolivia, all in very fragile ecosystems.  Nickel mining is also problematic.  Most comes from Indonesia, Australia, and Russia.  Low grade nickel ore is open pit mined with terrible environmental damage.  Though EV battery storage will be a major element of any electric grid storage system, much, much more will be needed beyond the capacity of EV vehicles.  We must keep an open mind to all viable and environmentally responsible methods for energy storage.  Putting all our eggs in one basket will not end well for humanity nor our planet.