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Mysterious Electrical Issues

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Giernan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Giernan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mysterious Electrical Issues
    Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 12:39am
Good evening. My husband and I purchased a 2021 192 about a month ago. It has the power inverter and factory-installed solar panel. We have it plugged into 30A at the house (properly wired), with a southwire 34930 surge guard 30A at the receptacle.

For about a week I have been losing the lights at night if I leave them on. They dim over a few hours and then go out… as though they are running off the battery and it is drained. I’ve tried turning the inverter off and on again, and I tried to reset the breaker on the inverter but I can’t seem to make the switch do anything.

Tonight I went to the camper to get something and it is 90% dead.  AC is off, no lights work, fridge doesn’t work (I have propane turned off at the moment). Control panel for the solar panel is black, as is the thermostat.  However. The outlets all work, the microwave clock is on, and the vacuum works. I reset the GFI outlet and flipped all the breakers off and back on. I don’t see any fuses inside the camper that are blown.

The southwire says all is well with the shore power.

What on earth is going on??

Also, I know there’s no manual for this, but could someone please explain conceptually how this cockamamie trailer’s electrical works?  What requires the battery, even if I’m plugged in??  What runs off the 30A? What does the inverter DO in the overall schematic? Does the solar panel run anything or just charge the battery?
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 5:19am
Lots of questions...

The basics:

The lights, furnace fan and ignition, fridge controls and ignition, stereo, water pump, water heater thermostat and ignition all run off the 12v battery. The inverter gets it's power from the battery too, and runs some 120vac receptacles. There is an automatic transfer switch in the inverter which allows shore power to bypass the inverter to run those receptacles directly when shore power is available.

The battery is charged by the converter which is under the electrical panel which in turn gets it's power from the shore power inlet. The solar also charges the battery through it's controller. When towing the battery also gets charged from your tow vehicle alternator. So the battery has 3 charging sources.

The micro, a/c, and (I think) fridge 120V get their power from the shore power inlet directly but the fridge also needs 120v control power from the battery even when in 120vac mode.

Sounds complicated huh? Not so bad once you get to know the systems involved but definitely more complex that your home wiring.

So what you are seeing is a dead battery, that would leave outlets working long with the a/c and micro.

So why is your battery dead even though you have shore power? First place to look is to see if the converter operating. There are both a breaker for 120vac in and fuses for 12v out. Check those. It can be hard to see if the fuses are blown. A multimeter would really help with that and multiple (pun intended) other troubleshooting steps.

I suspect your solar is working fine but your converter isn't which would explain why you have 12v power in the afternoon but at night it dies. That still leaves the question of what is using all that battery power. While everything should work ok if you're on shore power and the converter is running I would still make sure all your 12v stuff and the inverter are off when your rpod is not in use, so you don't wind up with a dead battery again.

One thing to check besides all the obvious stuff we've talked about if you can't figure out what's using 12v power is to check to be sure the breakaway brake pin hasn't accidentally been pulled. That would drag your battery down quickly. Its the pin attached to the cable on the trailer tongue that you loop through the tow vehicle hitch and connects your rpod battery to the trailer brakes if your trailer gets unhitched.   





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Ghost1671 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ghost1671 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 1:30pm
This information is very helpful. Would you say that the below are the basic components of solar? Is there anything that I am missing?

  • Solar Panel(s)
  • Converter: Takes energy from shore power and stores it in the battery. Is this part of the panel build, or something to purchase separately?
  • Charge Controller: Take energy from solar panel(s), or tow vehicle, and stores it in the battery.
  • Battery: Lithium/12V/6V
  • Inverter: Take energy from the battery and inverts it to 120V.


I'm still a little hazy about the interchangeability of the different types of batteries.
 
Cassandra
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 2:58pm
The ac to DC converter doesn't have anything to do with solar. We all have one in our rpods, whether we have solar or not. If you go with Li batteries you will need to change it because Li batteries are charged differently. This is very important for safety because under no circumstances do you ever want to overcharge a Li battery. A fire can result.

The solar charge controller manages charging from the solar module(s). so needs to be set up for Li, many charge controllers can often be set for either lead acid or Li batteries The solar charge controller only manages solar charging, not tow vehicle charging.

If you want to charge a Li battery from your tow vehicle you will need a DC DC converter for that. That's because normally when you connect your 7 way plug you are just connecting your tow vehicle battery directly to your trailer battery. That's ok as long as they are both lead acid but if the trailer battery is Li you need better control of the voltage you're charging at.

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Ghost1671 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ghost1671 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 10:44pm
Thank you!!! 😃
Cassandra
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john in idaho View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote john in idaho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 8:06am
Is the fridge on 12v or 110?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GlueGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 10:16am
Originally posted by john in idaho

Is the fridge on 12v or 110?
Depending on your model of Rpod, yes. For example, the fridge in our 2017 RP179 can run on 12VDC, or 120VAC, or propane. Some newer models have fridges that are only 120VAC/propane. 

Which model of fridge do you have?
bp
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jato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 8:00pm
The smaller 3.5 cubic foot fridges are all 3-way.  On the newer pods with the larger fridges they are all 2-way, either 120 electric or propane.
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Giernan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Giernan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 10:30pm
This was tremendously helpful. Thank you! It's been sunny for a few days and all is well, so I assume you nailed the problem on its head and we have a converter problem. I have checked all the fuses and all were intact. The manual for the converter has a detailed troubleshooting process that we will follow tomorrow to see what we can track down. 

One thing I couldn't see easily is whether or not FR installed an inline fuse anywhere. Do you have any ideas on any non-obvious places to look?

Thank you again!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Giernan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 7:06pm
Update and two questions

I’m still having this issue, and still have not managed to track down the source. The converter is working properly, assuming the troubleshooting instructions in the manual were correct. The converter is in fact sending 13.6 V to the battery as designed.

At this point I have two additional questions.

One: does the power INverter (not converter) have anything to do with the battery draining too quickly? A Facebook group I follow had a post that indicated if the inverter is turned on the battery will drain VERY quickly. I turned the inverter off a week ago and so far I haven’t noticed any effect.

Two: Is there a minimum amperage size needed on the battery? I looked briefly and didn’t see one, but I’ll keep looking. I ask because I disconnected the battery tonight and took it up to AutoZone to have them test it, and they said it was not charged enough to test (it was only at 16%). This would make sense if the battery is only being charged by the solar panel, because it’s been overcast and raining all day. A gentleman at Auto Zone overheard my question and came forward to peek at the battery and suggested it was too small to run much of anything at all because it was only a 500 amp “super start” battery. He thought I would need a 750 amp battery.
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