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Tire Replacement - Event Date: 05 Apr 2021

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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Calendar Event: Tire Replacement
    Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 8:21am
Originally posted by Welchsoft

My axle rating is 4400 pounds and the dry weight (measured when it came off the manufacturing floor) is 3594 pounds.  I've been searching like crazy and haven't found any one tire that owners have put many miles on and can recommend other than the GY Endurance.  I'm just kind of tired of searching and want to get the Castle Rocks off before I travel cross country.  Suggestions?


Forget the dry weight, use the 4400 lb (2200 per wheel) and get tires that are rated between 1.25 and 1.5 of that (2750 and 3300 lbs) or thereabouts, Probably that will be a D or E but go by the load rating not the letter

In my opinion brand is a distant second and a personal choice, I personally don't pay a nickel for one brand over another unless there is a clear technical difference between the two options.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 9:16am
So how does one know which tire is better in terms of rubber compounding, quality of manufacturing and other components, tread design for optimum anti-hydroplaning, etc.? 

When I look at a tire for my car, truck or trailer, they all look pretty much the same to me except for the obvious tread pattern differences and the tread wear and weight/speed ratings.  I don't have a clue wether these round black doughnut shaped objects are good or bad.  The fact is some tires do not last nearly as long as others and are more prone to failure.  

Though brands are no guarantee of quality or the lack of manufacturing defects, one can reasonably say that brands like Carlisle and Goodyear have reputations to protect and don't want to risk losing it by putting out inferior products.  Especially in this time of social media, reputations can be destroyed almost at the speed of light. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pod_Geek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by Welchsoft

My axle rating is 4400 pounds and the dry weight (measured when it came off the manufacturing floor) is 3594 pounds.  I've been searching like crazy and haven't found any one tire that owners have put many miles on and can recommend other than the GY Endurance.  I'm just kind of tired of searching and want to get the Castle Rocks off before I travel cross country.  Suggestions?

As I have mentioned numerous times here, been very happy with these OEM tires on the HRE R-Pod 195:

Westlake ST235/75R15 Radial Off-Road Trailer Tire - Load Range D


https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Tires-and-Wheels/Westlake/WST54FR.html

13k miles and going strong.  Run at 65 psi/max 65 mph, not overloaded.  Not cheap, but, as usual, you tend to get what you pay for.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 7:24pm
Originally posted by lostagain




Though brands are no guarantee of quality or the lack of manufacturing defects, one can reasonably say that brands like Carlisle and Goodyear have reputations to protect and don't want to risk losing it by putting out inferior products.  Especially in this time of social media, reputations can be destroyed almost at the speed of light. 

It is just as likely that the incumbent brand is resting on it's laurels milking it's brand name for short term profitability while the newer market entrant has to have better quality in order to build market share. That has happened many times as CEOs have become more and more focused on next quarter's. stock price.

So personally I generally ignore brand. If there is data (specs, reliability stats, customer reviews) supporting one product over another I will pay attention to that. Overall I think I'm way ahead in the benefit to cost ratio even though I've had to replace something now and then that didn't work out. Tires have not been one of those.

As I said, it is a personal choice, if you want to buy by brand that's totally fine with me.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 11:08pm
So, how do you determine the manufacturing specs for any given tire?  Do you have access to the manufactures' design and fabrication specifications?  Usually, those are trade secrets and obtaining them is complicated.  All that's printed on the tire is the DOT info and with trailer tires, there isn't even a tread wear rating or heat rating.  How do you determine which tire has the best rubber compounding?  Show us some reliability statistics for travel trailer tires?  Where can we find them?  As for customer reviews, though that provides some nice anecdotal opinions of some, it is not a reliable source of information.  How many reviews are bogus or paid for by the manufacturer or competitors looking to bad mouth someone else's product?  "Customer reviews" are notoriously unreliable, especially in the days of the internet.  

As for tires, there are good ones and bad ones.  And the consequences of buying bad ones can be fatal.  Though, as I said above, brands are no guarantee of quality, the odds are in your favor of getting a better quality product from well establish brands that have many years in the business.  Certainly, in some businesses quarterly profits trump quality, but tire companies  such as Goodyear, Goodrich, Michelin, etc. that have been around for many years with pretty good products are not as likely to go the quick profit route as we have seen in other industries.  The reputational damage is just too big a risk.  

Buy what you like, but don't complain when it works out badly.  When I go to Harbor Freight, I don't expect quality, I expect a couple of uses for a throw away product.  When I want a good miter saw, I'll get a DeWalt, not a Bauer from HF.  The brand doesn't matter but the quality sure does.  


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Welchsoft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 6:32am
I've run Micheline LT tires on my vehicles of all types for 30 years.  Only one problem with dry rot and Micheline provided almost 100% of the value back to me.  I whish this could just be a no-brainer and buy Micheline's but realize that they don't make ST tires, although I understand that if you purchase a new Airstream and want a tire upgrade, they put on Micheline's.  So I think I'm at the point where I'll combine that importance of the load range and a brand that has a good, and long reputation for good trailer tires and go with Carlisle.  Thank you for all of the great information.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 6:33am
I never said I had access to any of the tire information you are asking for, therefore lacking specific information I don't buy expensive tires from companies relying on brand advertising.

I have had good service from the tires I do buy as have many others, if the tires are spec's adequately for the application. It is my view that the majority of problems folks have had with trailer tires are with underspec'd OEM tires put on there by the trailer manufacturer to save as much money as possible. They use Chinese tires for the same reason, so the failures are correlated with use of non-brand name tires. That doesn't make the country of origin/brand causal. There is no reason to believe that underspec'd name brand tires wouldn't also fail, that is after all why the manufacturers provide specs in the first place.

So while it is is very easy to blame these issues on the tire brand the reality is that it more likely it is the trailer manufacturer's fault for using underspec'd tires.At least there is hard evidence (the specs themselves) for that view.

There was night and day difference between the 14 inch LRCs that came with my trailer and the 15 inch LRD's I replaced them with. I got some extra ground clearance too.
Both were Chinese brands. For the cost differential between the tires I bought and name brand tires I more than paid for the 15 inch wheels I needed to make the change. They came premounted so no need to pay for that, just bolt em on.

I think my choice was safer and more cost effective than if I had stayed with the underspec'd 14 inch OEM wheels (wheels have load ratings too) and bought marginally specd brand name brand 14 inch LRCs as direct replacements. But we can't actually know, that requires multiple trials and statistical analysis that isn't going to happen.

I have gotten good service (home handyman use not professional) out of most everything I've bought from Harbor Freight, the use twice and throw away argument goes completely against my experience.

So you do what you want, I'll do what I want, and let's assume that folks asking for information on this forum are astute enough to decide for themselves. Most folks buying habits are well ingrained anyhow,
if they shop by brand when buying one product they are likely to do so with others, as you apparently do, and vice versa, as I do.   Let's not have this same debate ad infinitum, it's going nowhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 7:57am
Interesting thread in regard to tires.  A year ago I decided to purchase and run with snow tires year round on my pick up.  The reason was because a neighbor of mine, who is heavily involved with the local car club, showed me that it only made sense (at least to him) to use them year round as he had 40,000 miles on his and they still looked great and the most important being that they handled well, even during the warmer, summer months.  So here I am, 13,000 miles on mine, they handle great and of course with that few a miles on them, tread still looks like new.  The tire?  Michelin Latitude X-Ice.  No, I am not their rep. or sell tires either.  BTW, checked with my neighbor friend and he now has 48,000 miles on his and they still have a lot of life left on them.  His tires are mounted on a 1999 Lexus if you wished to know.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 9:36am
OG, the Carlisle tires I just put on my trailer last June, replacing the crappy Westlakes, are made in China.  It isn't the country of origin that matters, it's the quality of the product.  

No one is suggesting that you should brand names.  Indeed, do what you like.  My point is that there isn't a lot of information about specifications or reliability data available for tire purchases, as you try to suggest.  Internet product reviews are not trustworthy and are often paid for by product promoters or disparagers.  It is not irrational to rely on the "reputation" of tire companies and personal experience, as you seem to imply.  I have learned the hard way with "off brand" tires that they don't last as long as the major tire companies.  I don't like to waste my money either.

Knockoffs are a big problem in consumer products.  They appear to be identical to the brand they are copying.  But, when you take them apart and examine the components, they turn out to be cheap imitations that are poorly made with inferior components.  And when something goes wrong with these knockoffs and you get hurt using them, best of luck to you in finding who will be responsible, especially if you bought through the internet.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 3:44pm
LA, please reread my post. As I have said repeatedly, I agree there is not much data available on trailer tires. That's exactly why I dont spend money on expensive brand name tires. I'm not spending more money than I have to without some kind of hard data justifying that.

I do not trust the corporate decision makers to do anything other than maximize next quarters profits, so I do not rely on brand reputation. I have taken an advanced marketing course in brand management at a top ranked B school so I know a bit about how corporate brand management works. It's all about widening the gap between perceived value and tangible value, thereby maximizing profits at the customers expense.

I look at it this way: if I buy expensive stuff Im either putting money in the pocket of a company that is justifying that high price based on their brand with no real quality difference or I am buying more value at a higher price. Without independent data I don't know which. If I buy an inexpensive product I am either getting a low quality product at a low price or a good quality product at a low price, again I don't know which.

Most folks myself included, would rank those scenarios in this order of preference:

low price high quality (inexpensive brand)
high price high quality (expensive brand)
low price low quality (inexpensive brand)
high price low quality (expensive brand).

On average, lacking hard data, the inexpensive brand ranks higher more often. So lacking data I buy on price. Works for me, if you choose to do otherwise that's fine too. And no I don't think I'm goñna die because I'm rolling on Chinese brand tires I think we're beating the proverbial dead horse on this topic, again.




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