Just bought a 2018 179 - towing issue - R-pod Owners Forum

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offgrid

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Joined: 23 Jul 2018
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Topic: Just bought a 2018 179 - towing issue
Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 7:07pm

+1 on not depending on a wdh to be within your TV limitations, although they can help balance your TV and help improve ride and handling. I do recall working on the math with you, but not the details, not due to lack of interest, just to aging memory banks....

1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Olddawgsrule View Drop Down

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Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Location: New Hampshire
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Posts: 1014

Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 3:39pm

Just came back for a break and saw this:

OG, you and I worked on the math. What I show is that packing can be calculated through using a spreadsheet and the math. I worked out both, fore & aft. I did share as I built it. Seemed no one cared.. at the time..

The statement is not if my spreadsheet is perfect, yet how important loading is to get to proper hitch weight to stay within the proper limits of the both TV & TT. Using a WDH to avoid what are the limits/recommendations of either... I can not agree with.

My base Tacoma was a great match to the 183G. Once balanced with proper loading it was an awesome match! No sway issue (though I had sway control, ask why..), 4WD on an awesome vehicle! Rarely do I say a vehicle is that good.... The match works if... you load properly.

That's my only point here.

Byways no Highways
2017 Tacoma
Truck Camper Build
2004 F150 My Overlander

StephenH

podders Helping podders - pHp

Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Location: Wake Forest, NC
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Posts: 6289

Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 8:25am

Agreed. The picture is too low a resolution to view, even on a 27" monitor. When enlarged, it gets even fuzzier.

StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS

offgrid

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Joined: 23 Jul 2018
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Posts: 5290

Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 8:12am

Maybe my phone just won’t render your spreadsheet pic properly but it’s too fuzzy for me to read....can you load it at a higher res? Tks.

1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Olddawgsrule View Drop Down

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Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Location: New Hampshire
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Posts: 1014

Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 7:41am

I ran a Taco and had no issues with weight. I actually removed the WDH and it ran better overall (sway bar only). It really does come down to how you load 'both' your trailer and truck.

I took it to an extreme and built a spreadsheet (with some help to get it right). May seem overly done, yet the result was the removal of the WDH and a level truck.

I put close to 18K miles traveling the US and Canada in all types of terrain.

Byways no Highways
2017 Tacoma
Truck Camper Build
2004 F150 My Overlander

offgrid

Senior Member

Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290

Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 6:34am

If you are unhappy with the ride on your vehicle when not towing by all means make the mods that you want to do to improve that.

But if you’re considering doing that just for towing then it’s possible that you need more tension on your wdh. Without tensioning my wdh my rear axle load increases by about 750 lbs (my tongue weight is 500 lbs) when I connect the trailer. After tensioning it I cut that in half, to about 380 lbs, with about 250 lbs getting redistributed to the front axle (putting its load slightly higher than it was without the trailer), and about 120 to the trailer axle. I know the additional 380 lbs is there but it’s not a big deal, the 750 lbs really felt and looked squirrelly.

1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Dirt Sifter View Drop Down

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Joined: 30 Dec 2018
Location: Right side OR
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Posts: 170

Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 6:54pm

I did what StephenH did. Black sumosprings on the 2017 Tacoma TRD off road along with my WDH on our 179. Still use them with the 195.

Greg n Deb 2020 195 HRE
'07 Tundra 5.7L., '17 Tacoma 3.5L. Both with tow packages
1 Puggle, 1 Chihuahua support staff

mjlrpod

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Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Location: Massachusetts
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1214

Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 1:00pm

I run only WDH on my frontier, and I think that would be the best place to start.

2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding

StephenH

podders Helping podders - pHp

Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6289

Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 10:53am

In my case, the SumoSprings help even when we are not towing. When we hit a bump before, the suspension would bottom out against the bump stop. The SumoSprings make for a much better ride and better handling. As for the Tacoma, that is, as you say, situation dependent. I agree that WDH should be first and Sumo/SuperSprings if still needed.

StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS

offgrid

Senior Member

Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290

Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 10:03am

I’m not suggesting that suspension mods aren’t necessary in some cases, just that the wdh should be done first. The reason is that it reduces the load on the TV rear axle, suspension mods don’t help with that. Once the wdh is done if the rear suspension still feels too soft then is the time to stiffen it. Suspension mods come with a downside, which is a less conforming ride when not towing. You’re modifying the manufacturer’s carefully engineered suspension system after all.

In my case my Highlander feels like it needs a stiffer rear suspension when towing without the wdh tensioned, with the wdh properly tensioned its fine and the nice comfortable ride Toyota is still there when not towing.

1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

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offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Topic: Just bought a 2018 179 - towing issue Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 7:07pm
	+1 on not depending on a wdh to be within your TV limitations, although they can help balance your TV and help improve ride and handling. I do recall working on the math with you, but not the details, not due to lack of interest, just to aging memory banks....
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Olddawgsrule Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 20 Sep 2017 Location: New Hampshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 1014	Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 3:39pm
	Just came back for a break and saw this: OG, you and I worked on the math. What I show is that packing can be calculated through using a spreadsheet and the math. I worked out both, fore & aft. I did share as I built it. Seemed no one cared.. at the time.. The statement is not if my spreadsheet is perfect, yet how important loading is to get to proper hitch weight to stay within the proper limits of the both TV & TT. Using a WDH to avoid what are the limits/recommendations of either... I can not agree with. My base Tacoma was a great match to the 183G. Once balanced with proper loading it was an awesome match! No sway issue (though I had sway control, ask why..), 4WD on an awesome vehicle! Rarely do I say a vehicle is that good.... The match works if... you load properly. That's my only point here.
	Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander

StephenH Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6289	Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 8:25am
	Agreed. The picture is too low a resolution to view, even on a 27" monitor. When enlarged, it gets even fuzzier.
	StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 8:12am
	Maybe my phone just won’t render your spreadsheet pic properly but it’s too fuzzy for me to read....can you load it at a higher res? Tks.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Olddawgsrule Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 20 Sep 2017 Location: New Hampshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 1014	Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 7:41am
	I ran a Taco and had no issues with weight. I actually removed the WDH and it ran better overall (sway bar only). It really does come down to how you load 'both' your trailer and truck. I took it to an extreme and built a spreadsheet (with some help to get it right). May seem overly done, yet the result was the removal of the WDH and a level truck. I put close to 18K miles traveling the US and Canada in all types of terrain.
	Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 6:34am
	If you are unhappy with the ride on your vehicle when not towing by all means make the mods that you want to do to improve that. But if you’re considering doing that just for towing then it’s possible that you need more tension on your wdh. Without tensioning my wdh my rear axle load increases by about 750 lbs (my tongue weight is 500 lbs) when I connect the trailer. After tensioning it I cut that in half, to about 380 lbs, with about 250 lbs getting redistributed to the front axle (putting its load slightly higher than it was without the trailer), and about 120 to the trailer axle. I know the additional 380 lbs is there but it’s not a big deal, the 750 lbs really felt and looked squirrelly.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Dirt Sifter Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2018 Location: Right side OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 170	Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 6:54pm
	I did what StephenH did. Black sumosprings on the 2017 Tacoma TRD off road along with my WDH on our 179. Still use them with the 195.
	Greg n Deb 2020 195 HRE '07 Tundra 5.7L., '17 Tacoma 3.5L. Both with tow packages 1 Puggle, 1 Chihuahua support staff

mjlrpod Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Location: Massachusetts Online Status: Offline Posts: 1214	Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 1:00pm
	I run only WDH on my frontier, and I think that would be the best place to start.
	2017.5 Rp-172 2020 R-pod 195 2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl I'll be rpodding

StephenH Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6289	Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 10:53am
	In my case, the SumoSprings help even when we are not towing. When we hit a bump before, the suspension would bottom out against the bump stop. The SumoSprings make for a much better ride and better handling. As for the Tacoma, that is, as you say, situation dependent. I agree that WDH should be first and Sumo/SuperSprings if still needed.
	StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 10:03am
	I’m not suggesting that suspension mods aren’t necessary in some cases, just that the wdh should be done first. The reason is that it reduces the load on the TV rear axle, suspension mods don’t help with that. Once the wdh is done if the rear suspension still feels too soft then is the time to stiffen it. Suspension mods come with a downside, which is a less conforming ride when not towing. You’re modifying the manufacturer’s carefully engineered suspension system after all. In my case my Highlander feels like it needs a stiffer rear suspension when towing without the wdh tensioned, with the wdh properly tensioned its fine and the nice comfortable ride Toyota is still there when not towing.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold