Just bought a 2018 179 - towing issue
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Topic: Just bought a 2018 179 - towing issue
Posted By: HillbillyMedic
Subject: Just bought a 2018 179 - towing issue
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 9:12pm
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2018 179 towing with my 2015 Tacoma Sport. I think I need to beef up my suspension. Anyone have any experience doing so? ------------- Be careful. |
Replies:
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 10:04pm
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Check out SumoSprings. I added a set to the rear suspension in our Frontier and they make a big difference. I don't know about the Tacoma, but on the Frontier, they just replaced the stock bump stops on the rear leaf springs. I started with the blue ones and changed to the black ones because I needed a bit more firmness. They were the right choice for me. I did not get them for the front, but I should probably do so. https://www.supersprings.com/products/sumosprings/ - https://www.supersprings.com/products/sumosprings/ You could also check out the SuperSprings. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 2:28am
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Do you already use a weight distribution hitch? If not then I’d recommend getting that set up first and see if that resolves your concerns with your Taco. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 8:44am
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With my older Frontier, the leaf springs in the back seemed to be too soft, even with a WD/sway control hitch (Hensley Cub). The SumoSprings made a big difference. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 10:03am
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I’m not suggesting that suspension mods aren’t necessary in some cases, just that the wdh should be done first. The reason is that it reduces the load on the TV rear axle, suspension mods don’t help with that. Once the wdh is done if the rear suspension still feels too soft then is the time to stiffen it. Suspension mods come with a downside, which is a less conforming ride when not towing. You’re modifying the manufacturer’s carefully engineered suspension system after all.
In my case my Highlander feels like it needs a stiffer rear suspension when towing without the wdh tensioned, with the wdh properly tensioned its fine and the nice comfortable ride Toyota is still there when not towing. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 10:53am
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In my case, the SumoSprings help even when we are not towing. When we hit a bump before, the suspension would bottom out against the bump stop. The SumoSprings make for a much better ride and better handling. As for the Tacoma, that is, as you say, situation dependent. I agree that WDH should be first and Sumo/SuperSprings if still needed. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 1:00pm
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I run only WDH on my frontier, and I think that would be the best place to start. ------------- 2017.5 Rp-172 2020 R-pod 195 2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl I'll be rpodding |
Posted By: Dirt Sifter
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 6:54pm
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I did what StephenH did. Black sumosprings on the 2017 Tacoma TRD off road along with my WDH on our 179. Still use them with the 195. ------------- Greg n Deb 2020 195 HRE '07 Tundra 5.7L., '17 Tacoma 3.5L. Both with tow packages 1 Puggle, 1 Chihuahua support staff |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 6:34am
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If you are unhappy with the ride on your vehicle when not towing by all means make the mods that you want to do to improve that.
But if you’re considering doing that just for towing then it’s possible that you need more tension on your wdh. Without tensioning my wdh my rear axle load increases by about 750 lbs (my tongue weight is 500 lbs) when I connect the trailer. After tensioning it I cut that in half, to about 380 lbs, with about 250 lbs getting redistributed to the front axle (putting its load slightly higher than it was without the trailer), and about 120 to the trailer axle. I know the additional 380 lbs is there but it’s not a big deal, the 750 lbs really felt and looked squirrelly. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 7:41am
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I ran a Taco and had no issues with weight. I actually removed the WDH and it ran better overall (sway bar only). It really does come down to how you load 'both' your trailer and truck. I took it to an extreme and built a spreadsheet (with some help to get it right). May seem overly done, yet the result was the removal of the WDH and a level truck. I put close to 18K miles traveling the US and Canada in all types of terrain.  ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 8:12am
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Maybe my phone just won’t render your spreadsheet pic properly but it’s too fuzzy for me to read....can you load it at a higher res? Tks. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 8:25am
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Agreed. The picture is too low a resolution to view, even on a 27" monitor. When enlarged, it gets even fuzzier. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 3:39pm
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Just came back for a break and saw this: The statement is not if my spreadsheet is perfect, yet how important loading is to get to proper hitch weight to stay within the proper limits of the both TV & TT. Using a WDH to avoid what are the limits/recommendations of either... I can not agree with. My base Tacoma was a great match to the 183G. Once balanced with proper loading it was an awesome match! No sway issue (though I had sway control, ask why..), 4WD on an awesome vehicle! Rarely do I say a vehicle is that good.... The match works if... you load properly. That's my only point here. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 7:07pm
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+1 on not depending on a wdh to be within your TV limitations, although they can help balance your TV and help improve ride and handling. I do recall working on the math with you, but not the details, not due to lack of interest, just to aging memory banks.... ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: HillbillyMedic
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2021 at 8:04pm
------------- Be careful. |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2021 at 6:19am
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Yep, get a weight distribution hitch. And weigh your tongue to see what you really have there. The front axle of the Taco is too light, needs more of the load transferred onto it. Heavier rear springs won’t help with that.
Also, you might want to shorten/cross those safety chains, looks like there is a lot of slack in them. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2021 at 7:19am
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Ya, get that tongue weight before doing anything else. I saw that before I re-balanced the loads. You look like you just put a load of topsoil in the bed. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: Dirt Sifter
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2021 at 7:27am
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With a WDH my Tacoma TRD Off Road sits level with our 195 and did so with the 179 also. Still can't get photo to post. I'm thinking you are just pulling out of the dealership and have not loaded this up yet, but if I'm wrong then gotta agree with the two old guys above and suggest you look at how you're loaded. ------------- Greg n Deb 2020 195 HRE '07 Tundra 5.7L., '17 Tacoma 3.5L. Both with tow packages 1 Puggle, 1 Chihuahua support staff |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2021 at 9:21am
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I’d recommend a complete weighing at a public scale. Load up the way you want to camp first, both the truck and the trailer, including passengers and water if you plan to dry camp. Get the wdh you want first and install it but don’t tension it. Go through the scales adding one axle at a time. You can get the weight on each axle by subtraction. Then drop the trailer and go back through the scales with just the Taco. Leave the wdh in the receiver. Again weigh each axle. Subtract the full tow vehicle weight from the second weighing from the entire rig weight from the first weighing to get trailer weight. Subtract the total weight of the tow vehicle from the second weighing from the weight of the two TV axles from the first weighing to get the tongue weight.
Put all your specs and actual weights in this calculator and it will tell you where you are compared to your max limits, as well as how much you need to tension your wdh to get the front axle back up to the load it had without the trailer, which is the proper setting. Also be sure you are at least at 10% tongue weight as a percent of trailer weight. 11% plus is better. That reduces sway risk. From the looks of it low tongue weight isn’t likely to be your problem though. %20 - https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php - Calculator ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 8:10am
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I’d recommend a complete weighing at a public scale. Agreed Load up the way you want to camp first, both the truck and the trailer, including passengers and water if you plan to dry camp. Okay, as a test, but... It's a bit soon for this. Get the wdh you want first and install it but don’t tension it. Here's where you lose me. You've 'pre-determined' he requires it. I didn't 'require' WDH after balancing the load. In both the TT & TV. I don't 'presume' he requires WDH. How about he balances the load first, checking tongue weight as he does. To the OP: If you can freely use a scale (transfer station in town) Then I'd do some TT packing watching the tongue weight. You can use a bathroom scale like this shows. https://www.etrailer.com/faq-how-to-determine-trailer-tongue-weight.aspx - https://www.etrailer.com/faq-how-to-determine-trailer-tongue-weight.aspx Be sure to watch your TV balance as you load it. This you will need to pack your heavies (Like I placed my spare Propane tank & TT spare tire) against the Cabin wall (forward of the axle). Be careful what else goes in the truck, minding your loading weight. If you balance the weight 1st and still find you require a WDH, then at least you know how to properly pack and reduce the chances of issues/repairs in the future. With how mine performed, I just don't see the requirement. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 9:11am
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olddawgsrule, it’s not too early to load the gear your want to bring, make a short trip to the local scales, and weigh. It’s pointless to weigh the trailer and tow vehicle empty, that tells you nothing.
As for needing a wdh, no one “needs” one in the sense that you should be legal without it. But that doesn’t mean it’s not a very good thing to have one. The OP raised his question because he is already concerned about how his tow vehicle is handling the trailer. And he should be, look at the photo, his front axle is waay too light. A wdh is the only device that can correct that. What folks don’t realize is that hanging a trailer on the hitch changes the TV front/rear load distribution by much more than the tongue weight of the trailer. A 500 lb tongue weight might for example reduce the front axle load by 250 lbs and increase the rear axle load by 750 lbs, resulting in a 1000 lb difference between the two axles. The actual numbers will vary based on wheelbase and distance from the ball to the rear TV axle, but you will always end up lighter on the front axle and adding more than the tongue weight to the rear axle, without a wdh. A wdh will change the geometry and weights of the rig. So by installing it before weighing, the OP only needs to do it and run the calculator once. You can and should adjust where you carry your loads, TV load as far forward as possible, always. Trailer load is not so simple because you have to strike a balance between excessive tongue weight from too much load forward and sway risk from too much load aft. Safest in a smaller TV going to be adjust the load so you’re close to the TV max tongue weight, and use a wdh to move some of that tongue load to the front axle. For a heavier TV I’d put 14-15% of trailer weight on the tongue, then decide based on ride and handling whether to add a wdh. If the OP wants to load and weigh without a wdh first that’s fine, but based on his concerns and what I see in the photo I think a wdh and a second weighing is in his future. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 10:51am
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Ford recommends a WDH on our F150 if the tongue weight is > 500 lbs. ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 12:45pm
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From a lay person's perspective, if the loaded TV and trailer don't sit evenly in a straight line back to front, such as is depicted in H-B's foto where the front is noticeably lifted, you probably need a WDH. It may be possible to get along without it, but what you gain in ease of driving will make it worth it. You gain better control, better wind stability, and better sway resistance all wrapped in one device. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 2:47pm
Still believe you have the cart in front of the horse. Start at the beginning and determine the issue. Buying a WDH at this point is not a solution.. Haven't found the issue yet! My mistake was listening to reasoning like this and not resolving the true issue first. I bought a WDH that was required. I only peruse this as I wish the OP to learn what the main issue is first. Then If indeed it can not be overcome, then go to another remedy. Learning how to balance a trailer if 'key'. Not buying a WDH and throwing that on.. OP. Sorry you have to read through all this. I hope is that you go step by step before jumping into another purchased remedy. Learn your trailer and balance it. Learn your truck and balance it. You may find as I did, these WDH's are for others. That TACO is a great match for this this trailer! Safe travels all! ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 3:50pm
Ford's ratings, as I understand them, state you only gain 120lbs in tongue weight with WDH. Heck, that's almost the weight of the hitch! No gain seen. The original issue remains. You are unbalanced. Your F150 (like mine) has higher capability than the Tacoma we are discussing (wifies rig). The weight placed on the tongue 'does not move'. It remains on the tongue. For Ford to recommend that bothers me. Just another reason I'm looking for a pre "85 Ford.. F250 or better. Okay, decent shape under $6K.... ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 3:56pm
Buying a system because you don't wish to figure out how to load? Okay for you I guess? Is this what we wish to teach or pass along?? Should we not at least show how to find and cure the main cause? Hey, I get you guys bought into this, as did I! I learned and only wish that others don't spend the dollar before understanding the real issue and how to over-come. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 3:57pm
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Good God... How did they ever manage before this WDH was marketed...
Oh ya, balancing the load and buying the right tow vehicle. Life was so much simpler then... ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 5:41pm
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olddogsrule, I can assure you that I need a wdh. I am at 11% on the tongue when my gray tank is full and my fwt empty. That is as low as I'm willing to go. When my fwt is full and gray tank empty I'm at 500 lbs. Without the wdh my rig looks like the op's and my front to rear TV axle imbalance is about 1000 lbs. I would not tow with my rig without the wdh.
The point us that you can't fully control how you load, water at least will start forward and move aft over time. There are other loads that are also hard to relocate, and good reasons, like sway risk, not to. Although a wdh when set properly will not get the TV back to where it was without the trailer it will put the front axle back where it was and place some tongue load on the trailer axle, so the rear TV axle squat will be reduced dramatically. Let me ask the question from the other direction, what is bad about having a wdh to improve load balance on a rig with a relatively light TV?You get additional ride improvement and loading flexibility. What's not to like? ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 6:22pm
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Need more weight on the steer axle? Just add a front receiver hitch and hitch rack and load up a big honkin' genset and a few cinder blocks....  ------------- r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten! |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 6:29pm
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Old, you seem to have a dog in this race. Personally, I don't care whether one buys a WDH or not. All I am saying is that the picture shows a midsize pickup truck with too much weight aft. Weight needs to be moved forward. A WDH can take care of that. You could add weight to the rear of the trailer to lighten the relative tongue weight, but that may be at the expense of increasing the potential for sway, an unpleasant condition. WDH's are not that expensive in the grand scheme of things. For a little more than $300 you can solve the balance and weight transfer problem, have a lot more directional stability, sway protection, and comfort in cross-winds and other challenging driving conditions, especially on long trips. When I look at our F-150 it is clear to me that this supposedly full sized pickup is more balanced with a WHD and it sure drives a lot nicer. Certainly, I could do with out it, but I'm not into white knuckle driving. Why bother? When I connect up the WDH, everything looks more balanced, and the weighing of the trailer at the CAT scale proved that to be the case with more than 150 lbs. transferred to the front wheels. It's clear that you are no fan of WDH's and that is your prerogative. But others, by sharing their preferences are not trying to unduly influence the OP's request for information. They're simply sharing their experiences.
------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 6:30pm
Oh yeah. Another solution. Put a receiver on the front and PUSH the trailer!  ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 6:34pm
Heck, you could have two r-Pods, one in front, the other in back. It'd be just like pushing jets around on tarmac at the airport.  ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 12:07pm
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Push the R-pod! Now THERE is a novel solution! Problem solved!  ------------- r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten! |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 7:57am
My point is not to just do the simple, buy something, yet learn what the issue/problem actually is and attempt to cure that. I own the same basic truck he does and balancing cured the issue. You seem to have missed that.. I've towed the 182g with my F150 without a WDH. Truck was level and could hardly tell it was back there until I hit a steep grade (4.6l) and she'd downshift. Fan or not of WDH, using one is not the first step. Learning the cause of the issue and curing it to the best you can first is always the best direction. I 'know' first hand that I don't require WDH to level my TV's (Taco or F150) and had 12% tongue weight (420). I used sway only to control in windy conditions. Now that Wouldn't leave home without. Safe travels all. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 8:47am
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No, Old, I didn't miss your "point." As I said as clearly as I could, "I don't care whether one buys a WDH or not." If you are happy with shifting things around to achieve a balanced load, then good for you. If you like what you have and it is safe, then keep doing what you prefer. As to whether it is more simple than using a WDH, that is not necessarily the case. The extra couple of minutes I spend hooking up our e2 is far more simple than futzing around with moving stuff fore and aft to achieve a balanced load. To each his own. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 11:14am
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My point is different. I’m not interested in leveling my tow vehicle, it doesn’t end up level. I’m interested in counteracting the teeter totter and getting the weight on the front axle back where it was without the trailer. That is how it is designed to operate and will handle the best. The only practical way to do that is by using a Wdh. You can move stuff around in the trailer all day and it wouldn’t accomplish that, not and still have at least 11% (400 lbs in my case) on the tongue. I guess I could hang some lead in the front bumper instead or gain a couple hundred pounds but I think I’ll pass on those options . As LA says, it’s not a big deal for me to connect and tension it. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 12:09pm
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Good point, OG. A properly balanced load means that there is adequate weight on the front wheels in order to be safe. If the shifting of stuff around only occurs in the trailer, then your reference to a teeter totter would be exactly the problem; just a question of on which side the fat kid is going to sit. Unless the shifting around of stuff adds weight to the TV's front wheels by adding weight at the most forward end of the bed, how would it ensure adequate weight transfer to the front wheels? Maybe really heavy passengers in the front seat of the truck? It'd be interesting to see the results of weighing the whole rig, not just the tongue weight. How much weight is on the front wheels, the rear, the trailer? What would the results of the weight distribution calculator show? Again, the bottom line is a safely balanced rig. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 12:22pm
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Someone someday is going to have to explain in detail what this giant resistance to using a WDH is all about. It solves several real problems, and you move on. ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 12:29pm
In my case it isn't a 'resistance' to using one but rather for the following: the dealership told me it wasn't necessary for my setup (177 at 2415 lbs being towed by an Explorer) and since I have never used one and feel comfortable driving with a simple Curt friction bar ($40) over the past 10 years and 34,000 + miles without incident over many various road and wind conditions, I don't like to fix it if in my mind, it doesn't need fixing. ------------- God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 5:40pm
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There is some fundamental physics going on here you just can't getlko around.
Say your trailer weighs 3500 lbs. You need your tongue weight to be 11 percent of that to be stable enough to avoid sway. That's 385 lbs. When you hang that 385 lbs on the hitch the TV is a teeter totter with the fulcrum being the rear axle. So there is a moment (torque) created. If the ball is 5 ft from the rear axle that moment is 385 x 5 = 1925 ft-lbs. If the wheel base is 10 feet then to counteract that 1925 ft-lbs you need 1925/10= 192.5 lbs, so the front axle is going to have almost 200 lbs less weight on it in order to balance the teeter. There's no way around that. Unless you use a weight distribution hitch with which puts a countering moment (torque) on the tow vehicle and pushes the front axle back down. That's in a nutshell is what a weight distribution hitch does. If your wheelbase is long enough and your vehicle is heavy enough then it odoesn't matter and you don't need a weight distribution hitch. But if you have a lighter tow vehicle with a shortish wheelbase it really helps put some load back on the front axle which is after all what steers the vehicle and has the best brakes. So if you have an F250 don't worry about it. If you're an F150 driver it's probably personal choice but if you have a Highlander or a Taco or some other lighter tow vehicle, especially one with a short wheelbase it really helps. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: HillbillyMedic
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 9:23am
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Thank you all for your input, advice and information. It is greatly appreciated. Off to buy a WDH. ------------- Be careful. |
Posted By: HillbillyMedic
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2021 at 3:25pm
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So now the question becomes: What size WDH? 500, 600, 1,000?
Tacoma Sport/R-Pod 179. ------------- Be careful. |
Posted By: JR
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2021 at 3:28pm
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I use an E2 with 600 lbs bars and am totally satisficed with it towing a 179 with a Pathfinder. Hope this helps. ------------- Jay 179/2019 |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2021 at 4:16pm
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+1 to JR for hitch. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2021 at 5:01pm
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I'm towing a 179 with a Dodge Durango GT Plus and the E2 600/6000 pound hitch.
------------- Alan 2022 R-Pod 196 "RaptoRPod" 2022 Ram 1500 Lone Star 4x4 Three cats |
Posted By: Pod People
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2021 at 6:11pm
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We tow our 179 with an Equalizer 4 point, 600 pound bars. Very happy tow package with our ford Expedition EL Vann ------------- Vann & Laura 2015 RPod 179 https://postimg.cc/0zwKrfB9"> 
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Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2021 at 6:41pm
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I have 1000 lb bars. My tongue weight is 500 lbs, and the wdh also has to lift cargo in the rear of the TV. So I think 600lbs is too low. The only issue with a stiffer wdh is going to be a bouncy ride, which I don't have even with 1000 lb bars. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2021 at 11:43am
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We have the E2 600, and we are totally, completely, and absolutely satisfied with the way it handles our RP179. It is the one our dealer recommended.
------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 9:52am
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If you have a heavy enough tow vehicle you don't need a wdh at all. So a lighter TV is going to benefit from higher wdh tension than a heavier one will. Sounds counter intuitive I know. Highlanders have a relatively short wheelbase so I end up with about 750-800 lbs tension on my bars to counteract the 500lbs on the tongue and the (pretty light) load in the cargo area. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 11:10am
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Even if you have a heavy enough vehicle, you would still (probably) need to adjust the suspension height. That would mean load levelers, sumo springs, or super springs or "something". I discovered this last year with our F150, which is plenty "heavy enough". I strapped up the Rpod without the WDH, and while it towed just fine, I found that the headlights were too high, and probably illegal. I was in a hurry, and I didn't have very far to go, so I thought it would be "OK". I decided after that that the couple of minutes to hook up the WDH would not be the deciding factor in the future. ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 11:11am
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+1 on SumoSprings. I installed a set on our Frontier. It makes a world of difference. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 11:34am
What kind of effect do those have when you're not towing? Do you notice a difference either in a bad way or a good way? ------------- Alan 2022 R-Pod 196 "RaptoRPod" 2022 Ram 1500 Lone Star 4x4 Three cats |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 11:45am
I agree, the TV height in the front will go up regardless of how heavy or long a wheelbase it has. But on a shorter wheelbase the angle is greater so it's more sensitive to how much wdh bar tension you have. I was surprised when I first adjusted mine about how much tension it required. But then I went through the numbers in the towing calculator and it made sense and matched up. On 18 inch bars I have about 400 lbs on each bar. Roughly speaking that will double under a 2g bump load. So thats about 800 bs per bar. My 1000 lb wdh hitch has bars each rated at 1000 lbs so I have a 25% safety factor on them under 2g loading. 600 lb ones would be overloaded, 800 lb ones would be right at their load limit. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 12:03pm
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |