P-pod for dry camping? |
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pedwards2932
Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2020 Online Status: Offline Posts: 338 |
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Topic: P-pod for dry camping? Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 9:57am |
As you know I have an Escape with 3500 lb load and 350 lb tongue weight. I check the tongue weight when loading. I have weighed at CAT scales and am within specs. I carry no water and we pack light. Would I like to have a 5000 lb tow vehicle yes but as long as I can stay within specs and I never exceed 63mph I can hold on for a while before I upgrade. So it can be done but you have to be aware of the limits.
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 8:56am |
I understand your point perfectly. Do you follow mine?
I have said about 3x now that you will get no argument from me as long as you're withing your specs. Do what you want, it's your choice. But I haven't seen any evidence from you or anyone else towing with a 3500 lb TV demonstrating that. Go weigh your rig with everything and everybody on board and then let's talk. Until that happens it's a waste of time discussing it. Of course you need to get sufficient weight on the tongue to avoid having an inherent trailer sway problem. While that can be more readily controlled with a heavier TV, that is not a condition anyone should want to encounter. That number for rpods based on my research is right around 10%, which is why I recommend 11%. Because that is the minimum and my weight moves around to the tune of about 3% as I consume water, I start out around 14% and end up around 11. Since my trailer weighs 3700 lbs loaded I start at 500 on the tongue, which is my max limit. Most TV hitch limits are 10% of trailer limits. You are only as good as your limiting spec. I can't tow with anything lighter than 5000 lbs even though I have significant headroom on trailer weight (26%)and MCGVW (10%). |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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MarkW
Groupie Joined: 25 Jan 2021 Location: Michigan Online Status: Offline Posts: 54 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 8:21am |
Umm. 100% of your tow vehicle's load ratings is indeed a hard and fast rule. Above that is unlawful operation of a motor vehicle on a highway, which is a crime. So don't do it, and it's is a violation of forum rules to support it.
I think you've missed the point. For liability reasons, I don't intent to exceed the ratings or recommend anybody else do so -- and I've said that throughout this thread. What the difference between European and U.S. ratings (even for exactly the same vehicles sold in both markets) suggest, however, is that U.S. manufacturers are relatively conservative, so I don't see a need to take the U.S. ratings and then subtract 25% 'just to be safe because you know how car manufacturers always play fast and loose with safety'. And more than that, the rating doesn't even seem to be the most important factor vs having a properly balanced rig. A pickup with a 10000# tow rating is still going to get pulled sideways (and probably then roll) if a 3000# trailer goes into uncontrolled oscillations behind it. |
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pedwards2932
Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2020 Online Status: Offline Posts: 338 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 8:07am |
I have the Hayes Sway master which applies trailer brakes when the TT starts to sway and it pulls the trailer back straight. Part of what I am seeing in the video is the trailer gets out of control very quickly. If you could manually put on the trailer brakes it would cause the trailer to straighten but under the panic of the trailer swaying more violently it is hard to think to put the breaks on the trailer. It also appears a lot of these incidents involve driving too fast which can cause a TT to get out of control really fast.
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 7:53am |
Umm. 100% of your tow vehicle's load ratings is indeed a hard and fast rule. Above that is unlawful operation of a motor vehicle on a highway, which is a crime. So don't do it, and it's is a violation of forum rules to support it.
As for physics being the same in Europe, sure of course. But physics is the pursuit of understanding of how the universe works. What we are dealing with here is engineering, making something practical that people can actually use. That means not only conforming to physical laws but also to the regulations, environment, history, and cultural expectations in the place the thing you are engineering will be operated. My degree is in physics but I have engineered and built power systems on 6 continents and used all sorts of vehicles to reach those construction sites. So meh^2. I didn't get to search all over the planet for the regs that suited me and call it good, and neither can you. I had to conform to the rules of the jurisdiction I was working in, like it or not. To paraphrase Shakespeare, methinks at this point that he doth protest too much. Instead of continuing this data free debate, let's hear the actual load numbers. I'm still waiting for someone here who is towing a mid sized rpod with a 3500 lb vehicle to present real world fully loaded axle, trailer, hitch, and MCGV weights for their rig, comparing them to their limiting specs. It hasn't happened yet, which leads me to suspect that these operators don't really want to know and instead want to present hand waving arguments as a form of confirmation bias supporting what they've decided to do anyway.If you are within limits I don't have an issue, it's a personal choice based on your risk tolerance, feel free to justify that any way you want to. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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MarkW
Groupie Joined: 25 Jan 2021 Location: Michigan Online Status: Offline Posts: 54 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 7:18am |
What I find odd is on the Forrest River forum the answer is always you need a F250 anything less just won't do and this is the response given to folks looking at a 3000 lb TT. I guess I would have a hard time explaining why I need a $50000 truck to pull a 3300 lb TT to my wife.
It's not even clear that a big truck helps with the issue that seems to cause most of the accidents -- namely, out of control trailer sway. In fact, it looks like it may be the case that with a pickup, there is a greater likelihood that the TV will roll over along with the trailer in a crash (as in these dashcam videos): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJtmOPdWrlE It seems to me that the critical thing is to get a good balance/sway control with the trailer regardless of the TV. Look at the crash at 2:50 in the video -- having a relatively light trailer relative to the TV isn't a guarantee. In that case it's an empty flatbed trailer that goes out of control and ultimately rolls the TV.
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pedwards2932
Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2020 Online Status: Offline Posts: 338 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 5:39pm |
Sorry it was the IRV2 forum:
'Buy a F250 at the minimum ( Dodge or Chevy 2500 ) and then go get a trailer. DO NOT put your family or anyone elses at risk with too little tow vehicle. Look through this forum and you will find the same question over and over about a tow vehicle. Always the same answer."
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lostagain
Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2587 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 4:40pm |
At least they're not saying that this is the minimum requirement:
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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Pod_Geek
Senior Member Joined: 04 Dec 2019 Location: Colorado Online Status: Offline Posts: 260 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 4:39pm |
I frequent that forum and I don't think that for the most part those folks are quite as pedantic as you suggest (plenty of times they say a 1/2 ton is fine for a relatively short, light trailer). They do respond bluntly, however, when folks say that they're going to tow their 45-foot 5th wheel with a Tacoma. Kind of like here...
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2020.5 R-Pod 195 Hood River
2018 RAM 2500 6.4L |
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pedwards2932
Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2020 Online Status: Offline Posts: 338 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 3:47pm |
What I find odd is on the Forrest River forum the answer is always you need a F250 anything less just won't do and this is the response given to folks looking at a 3000 lb TT. I guess I would have a hard time explaining why I need a $50000 truck to pull a 3300 lb TT to my wife. I am marginal but within specs with my tow vehicle but it works for me.
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