P-pod for dry camping?

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   I'm quite confident that U.S. auto manufacturers don't overestimate towing capabilities and that RV manufacturers don't underestimate dry weights -- if for no reason other than the U.S. has an enormous army of trial attorneys who would love nothing better than to bring class-action suits against big corporations like auto and RV manufacturers.  

Have you ever seen the European tow ratings, BTW?  Because of $8 gas, pickups and huge SUVs are rare, and people tow large 'caravans' with ordinary passenger cars.  Here, for example, are the UK tow ratings for a VW Passat:

http://www.towingcapacity.co.uk/car-make-model/volkswagen/volkswagen-passat/
2200KG is....4850 LBS!  For a midsize sedan.

So no, I'm not worried about being near my much longer, heavier, more powerful van's towing limit at  1350# less than a Passat.  But for insurance/liability reasons, I don't want to go over the 3500# rating (and I want to keep it on the lighter side until we've had more experience towing the RV and gotten things dialed in with the TV and trailer loading and tongue weight, etc).

Which isn't to say that you can't have problems with trailers within the limits.  Not every vehicle rated for, say, 5000# can tow every trailer under 5000#.  Often wheelbase is a culprit:

The biggest factor to consider when towing a long trailer with a short wheel base tow vehicle is trailer sway. There is no standard ratio for wheelbase to trailer length, but the general rule is a longer trailer and a shorter wheelbase will increase the severity of trailer sway.

https://www.etrailer.com/question-301694.html

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MarkW Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 25 Jan 2021 Location: Michigan Online Status: Offline Posts: 54	Post Options Post Reply Quote MarkW Report Post Quote Reply Topic: P-pod for dry camping? Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 8:26am
	I'm quite confident that U.S. auto manufacturers don't overestimate towing capabilities and that RV manufacturers don't underestimate dry weights -- if for no reason other than the U.S. has an enormous army of trial attorneys who would love nothing better than to bring class-action suits against big corporations like auto and RV manufacturers. Have you ever seen the European tow ratings, BTW? Because of $8 gas, pickups and huge SUVs are rare, and people tow large 'caravans' with ordinary passenger cars. Here, for example, are the UK tow ratings for a VW Passat: http://www.towingcapacity.co.uk/car-make-model/volkswagen/volkswagen-passat/ 2200KG is....4850 LBS! For a midsize sedan. So no, I'm not worried about being near my much longer, heavier, more powerful van's towing limit at 1350# less than a Passat. But for insurance/liability reasons, I don't want to go over the 3500# rating (and I want to keep it on the lighter side until we've had more experience towing the RV and gotten things dialed in with the TV and trailer loading and tongue weight, etc). Which isn't to say that you can't have problems with trailers within the limits. Not every vehicle rated for, say, 5000# can tow every trailer under 5000#. Often wheelbase is a culprit: The biggest factor to consider when towing a long trailer with a short wheel base tow vehicle is trailer sway. There is no standard ratio for wheelbase to trailer length, but the general rule is a longer trailer and a shorter wheelbase will increase the severity of trailer sway. https://www.etrailer.com/question-301694.html

podwerkz Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 Mar 2019 Location: Texas Online Status: Offline Posts: 966	Post Options Post Reply Quote podwerkz Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 5:30pm
	A few months back a friend (actual friend, not an online friend) was asking me about a new travel trailer he was about to buy to haul with his half-ton pickup...This trailer (not an r-pod) was right at the top of the weight range for the pickup. I advised him to look for a smaller trailer, or else deal with the 'tail wagging the dog syndrome'...He shrugged at me and and said yeah, ok, whatever.. A few days ago I got a text from him that this oversized (but still within the mfg tow ratings) trailer was swaying in the wind from every passing truck, and yes, he has wdh and sway control... and should he be buying a 3/4 ton truck? Yikes! He said he could hear me saying 'I told you so'...reason he waited before telling me...and I never said that, cuz I didnt even know he went and bought the trailer and hit the road with it. It's just that a good sized travel trailer will cause a 'wagging the dog effect' if the tow vehicle is simply 'outgunned' by the trailer. 'Towing authority' is what you want, and pushing the weight ratings of the trailer right up to the last digit allowable, is not how you achieve that. Good luck.
	r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten!

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Post Options Post Reply Quote offgrid Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 3:40pm
	Yep I'm sure you're right, your vehicle is probably as good as you can get with any 3500 lb TV. But if you didn't think 3500 was getting marginal you probably wouldn't be working hard at bringing your trailer weight down, which I was commending you for doing. I wasn't trying to start an argument. I personally wouldn't tow any but the possibly the smallest rpod with any 3500 lb rated TV, I like a good margin between the manufacturers specs and my actual weights. I don't know enough about why the manufacturer rates them as they do to try to second guess them or know how agressive or conservative they have been in their specs. They certainly don't sell more vehicles by giving them a lower tow rating than they need to, so I'm sure the engineers are under pressure to set things higher rather than lower. As I said, it's entirely up to you what you do as long as you're legal and comfortable, no arguement here. All I'm suggesting is that you get your actual weights to be sure you're in spec and have a good tongue to trailer weight percentage for stability.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

MarkW Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 25 Jan 2021 Location: Michigan Online Status: Offline Posts: 54	Post Options Post Reply Quote MarkW Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 12:30pm
	Bottom line is that you have a marginal TV for that trailer Yeah, I really don't see it that way. Besides the manufacturers rating, the TV weight, power, GVWR, and wheelbase all matter. And the TV in this case is probably as high on those factors as anything you could buy with a 3500# rating (120" wheelbase, 4460# curb weight, 6000# GVWR, 296HP). I might worry about towing it with a Ford Escape or RAV4 with a 3500# limit (yes, they do exist), but those are much less substantial vehicles.

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Post Options Post Reply Quote offgrid Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 6:25pm
	My test suggestion was to look for inadequately damped yaw during sudden directional changes, not necessarily whether it was comfortable or not. That's kinda subjective. But it sounds like if you weren't comfortable then moving more weight onto the tongue is still a good idea.Then point is to have a stable rig and not to have to depend on sway control to save you in an emergency. My trailer was 300 lbs heavier than I expected it to be, carefully accounting for all options and items on board. Just saying. Up to you of course if you get an actual weight on that and your 3 axles so you can check against your trailer and TV specs but it's not hard to do and you can often do it for free at your county waste transfer station. Bottom line is that you have a marginal TV for that trailer and have already gone to a lot of effort to keep your weights down, great job. I congratulate you for that. Most folks wouldnt. Why not follow up with actual weights and confirm you've nailed it?
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

MarkW Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 25 Jan 2021 Location: Michigan Online Status: Offline Posts: 54	Post Options Post Reply Quote MarkW Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 3:03pm
	I actually did tow the first couple of hours with the sway control not tightened down as a test. It wasn't as comfortable that way, but was OK, and we did plenty of lane changes. I never felt the need to engage the brake controller manually (except for a parking lot test to make sure it worked). The hot water heater actually was (and is) drained until we stop having nights that drop below freezing, but at 5 gal, that's only 40#. If you choose to tow up to your max specs you are significantly increasing your risk profile but are still legal, so that’s up to you, but If you choose to tow outside of your rated specs and have a wreck you can be found negligent. The only way we could be outside (or even close to) rated specs is if the trailer is at least 400# heavier than what's on the sticker. If the manufacturer was selling trailers that far off, they'd be the ones looking at a huge potential liability, and given the massive number of warning stickers plastered all over the trailer, I feel confident that their army of lawyers wouldn't let them understate the trailer weight by several hundred lbs.

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Post Options Post Reply Quote offgrid Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 1:54pm
	By all means move some weight forward, but go weigh the trailer so you know where 11% is,don't assume a trailer weight based on FRs numbers. The other test is to check to see that the trailer is stable in tow and that the yaw oscillations are well damped. Without any antisway engaged make a lane change in a straight road at highway speed. A well balanced trailer will make at most one swing before coming back in line behind the TV. Start slow and be very careful doing this, keeping a hand on your manual brake control in case things get out of hand. See attached demo sway
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

jato Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Location: Kewadin, MI Online Status: Offline Posts: 3227	Post Options Post Reply Quote jato Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 12:25pm
	Definitely +1 When we towed our 177 with an Explorer with tongue weight at 9 - 10% we did experience some minor sway, even with the Curt anti-sway bar. Once the 11% figure was reached, no more sway, even under very windy conditions.
	God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."

MarkW Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 25 Jan 2021 Location: Michigan Online Status: Offline Posts: 54	Post Options Post Reply Quote MarkW Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 9:57am
	I just went out and measured the tongue weight at 285#, so between 9 and 10 percent. Given that, it's probably worth shifting some more weight forward next time (which is easy enough to do -- there's a lot of storage up front).

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Post Options Post Reply Quote offgrid Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 30 Mar 2021 at 9:47am
	As long as it's within specs (legal) and you're happy with it then you're ok. I had to pull some load out of the front of mine to get the tongue weight under my 500 lb TV hitch limit. I just put my second propane cylinder and anything heavy in the front storage in the tow vehicle as far forward as possible. That way I'm within specs and don't go below 11% tongue weight. Ended up at 3700 lbs with 500 on the tongue when the fresh water tank is full. Drops to a bit above 400 when the water moves to the back of the bus in the gray tank. Axle weights all within limits without the edge but the ride is much better with it tensioned.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold