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Topic ClosedTowing with Full Water Tank

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fwunder View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Towing with Full Water Tank
    Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 6:11pm
What's lighter? Vodka, Bourbon or Gin? Just wondering while sipping my one glass of wine. Heheh
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 5:32pm
+1

Bottom line, weigh it. Public scales don't lie. If you already have weighed without filling the fresh water tank no problem. You don't need to weigh it again. Just add 250 lbs to the total trailer weight for the 30 gal tank. 

You can also recalculate your tonque weight without going back to the scale. The full tank changes tongue weight according to the formula:

250 lbs X distance from trailer axle to tank / distance from trailer axle to hitch. Add if the tank is in front of the axle, subtract if behind.

Same formula applies for full  (or partially full) 30 gal grey and black tanks (and for any other loads in lbs you want to add in the trailer). 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 5:04pm
Circling back on this, it occurred to me during a recent trip that one thing might not have been discussed, and that is the total weight restriction of your RPod. I believe that our 182G has around an  800-900 lb limit. Once you factor in the weight of your battery(s), propane, and gear (depending on if you are bringing the kitchen sink or not) you might find that adding a full tank of water is too much for the axel rating. Also, be sure to factor in any residual water in the black or grey tanks.

Another thing to check is the payload of your TV. By taking gear out of your RPod and moving it to your TV, you might find that you exceed your payload when you factor in the weight of all of the passengers, gear, and tongue weight of the trailer. The sticker inside the driver's side door should give you all of your specs (look for curb weight and GVWR)

This is in addition to water tank placement, gear loading, tongue weight etc.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 4:12pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Dgxe584Ss **edited with better video** I am new here but not new to towing. This video provides a nice visual of improper weight distribution. It goes without saying that you probably shouldn't tow anything with a Ford Mustang GT :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2020 at 11:31am
Thanks for the insights.  It is consistent with my Zen of trailer loading; keeping the ying and yang in in balance so to speak.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2020 at 10:50am
Originally posted by lostagain


1.  Trailer balance is critical, keeping at an absolute minimum 10% of the weight on the tongue (where I'm unclear is what the maximum is - apart from the hitch limit - for proper balance, but my Zen approach is to not let it go too high either, or it ain't balanced.  Maybe we need to discuss the upper limit percentage.)


Yes, let's discuss that upper tongue weight percentage (rule of thumb is 15%).

Seems to me that it can only be there for three reasons:

To limit structural stress on the trailer tongue
To limit load on the ball mount
To limit load and axle weight imbalance on the tow vehicle.

Class IV ball mounts which most of us have are good for 8000 lb trailers so I don't think that is going to be the limiting factor with an rPod.

Structural stress on the tongue is an issue but when I looked at the rPod frame structural stress it was significantly less in the tongue area than at the axle to frame attachment, so going for a higher tongue weight could help distribute that stress better. We know there have been problems with axle loading on the "narrow" rPods, and shifting weight forward would help that too. 

That leaves the tow vehicle load. For me, with a 5000 lb/500 tongue weight rated SUV I can't increase the tongue weight any more than it is already, but for all you folks with heavier more capable tow vehicles I don't see any good reason not to move weight forward in the trailer and load the tongue a bit more. I wouldn't go crazy but if your TV can handle it, why not let it go up to say something around 20%, which would be about 750 lbs on a 3800 lb max weight rPod. 

I don't think I'd do that and also run a WDH though, as the combination would place a significant downward stress on the tongue. But if you have a big TV and aren't running a wdh anyway, why not?  

Just initial thoughts, I certainly might have missed something... 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 10:34am
+1
Having ended up facing the wrong way on I80 with oncoming big rigs, I can fully appreciate the information given here. In my case, it wasn't sway but ice with a crosswind. However, the end result was the same.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 9:05am
Looks like it's time for some deep slow breathing.  

I am sure everyone on this board wants to travel safely and not put him/herself or others in danger.  We all agree that trailers must be properly balanced with an absolute minimum of 10% of the weight at the tongue or one can be exposed to very dangerous trailer sway.  How one achieves the balance is not important, provided they succeed.  

The same is true of the gross weight of the trailer and TV when fully loaded.  To exceed the limits is dangerous.  For those without towing experience, sometimes they are confused by the salad of letters that are used to define weight measurement terms.  The input from this board has been very helpful, I believe, in informing people of the importance of not exceeding the capacity of one's TT and TV.  It has certainly helped me.  

Trailer towing is inherently dicy, especially with the ball hitch/tongue connection as compared to a "5th wheel" system.  It requires everyone to use care in making sure both balance and load are within safe limits.  If one is not willing to inform him/herself on the basics of load and balance, perhaps that person should get some help or not tow.

I think we can all agree on the following:
1.  Trailer balance is critical, keeping at an absolute minimum 10% of the weight on the tongue (where I'm unclear is what the maximum is - apart from the hitch limit - for proper balance, but my Zen approach is to not let it go too high either, or it ain't balanced.  Maybe we need to discuss the upper limit percentage.)
2.  The gross weight limits of the TT and the TV should never be exceeded, indeed, it's probably best to have as wide a margin of safety as your pocket book and circumstances allow.
3.  Keep the center of gravity as low as possible in both the TT and the TV by putting the heavy stuff down low instead of in the upper storage cabinets.
4.  Drive a reasonable speed for conditions.  Driving at 75 with a trailer can be done, but if something goes wrong, none of us have the ability to react sufficiently fast to correct the problem.
5.  When road/weather conditions are dangerous, don't drive in them.

All of the participants in this forum have made important contributions to the load, balance, and towing safety issue.  We need to keep it up and keep each other informed, especially those new to trailer towing.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 7:52am
OK codycountry. Lets try it this way. What do we agree on?

1) F250's are great tow vehicles. Awesome. Excellent choice.
2) Lots of folks are trying to tow around too much trailer with too little tow vehicle. Specifically, the 3500 lb tow SUV category is marginal at best even for a lighter rPod.
3) No one wants to cause anyone harm.
4) The density of water is 8.34 lbs per gallon and unless you're one of us engineering/pilot nerds putting together a weight and balance spreadsheet that isn't significantly different from 8 (that's why I put it in parentheses). 
5) You have to be more careful to get everything right when you are towing with a light tow vehicle rather than a heavier one.
6) A heavy tow vehicle can save a sway incident by remaining planted even when the trailer is out of control. 
7) Trailers need to have their weight properly balanced so they don't sway, even if you are running a heavy tow vehicle. 
8) If your tongue weight is too low you can add some weight up front to increase it (as long as you don't exceed the max gross weight of the trailer). 
9) If you can lift your rPod's tongue by hand then the tongue weight is too low.  

Good so far? What don't we agree on? Here's what we might or might not disagree on, it's really only 3 items I think. If I'm wrong or missed something let me know.

1) The minimum tongue weight we should be shooting for is about 10% of trailer weight. Lots of real world info and recommendations on that one, including incidents of sway on rPods. Do you agree or disagree?

2) You can let the tongue weight be lower if the weight is low in the trailer (like in a water tank). I haven't seen anything suggesting that so I disagree.

3) You can check if the tongue weight is OK by trying to lift the trailer and not being able to. You described the opposite test (not OK if you could lift the tongue) which is certainly true, but not particularly useful for someone to decide they're good to go. So, if the implication is that someone can use this as a test to see if they are OK rather than actually getting a tongue weight, I disagree. Most folks will give up at around 100 lbs or less. A loaded 177 is going to be upwards of 3000 lbs. So you want the tongue weight 300 lbs plus. 

As for having different methods for working out solutions to problems, that is for sure true. I'm an engineer. I know, its kinda weird, but we like to do math for fun. Sorry about that, born that way, can't change it. You are of course free to ignore my posts if it bothers you. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 10:18pm
This Ram Pickup driver likely to benefit from the collective expertise in this forum.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/33857/this-wildly-unsafe-ram-pickup-towing-a-mobile-home-is-a-disaster-waiting-to-happen
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