Space heater trips inverter breaker (R-Pod 195) |
Post Reply | Page <1234 7> |
Author | |
Talking_Cow
Newbie Joined: 13 Jan 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 11 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Topic: Space heater trips inverter breaker (R-Pod 195) Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 6:02pm |
Going back to the original issue of the thread (and resurrecting it), we just upgraded from a 2011 RP177 to a 2021 RP195 and it came with solar installed and the 1000W inverter. Anybody have any thoughts on if we should be fronting shore power with a Surge suppressor and if so, which one? Reading the inverter manual, I think it will take care of brown outs (and therefore no need for EMS), but I'm wondering if we need to protect the Inverter from spikes.
|
|
offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 7:56am |
The current output of solar cells/modules that is linear with solar irradiance (photons to electrons) is the short circuit current (Isc) or current at zero voltage. If the fill factor (how close to square the current-voltage curve of the module is) is poor then the current at max power (Imp) around 17V for our 12V modules can drop off significantly from Isc. Good modules will have a nice flat upper horizontal part of the IV curve with very little drop off. So if your SunWize modules had issues (like mismatched or broken cells or interconnects) then you could have a significant drop off in Imp at partial sun levels. Having multiple mismatched modules in series can make this worse too. The SunWize array was also probably not performing very well at full sun, it was just not as noticeable. But for new modules at 12V in our little systems it's not something we need to really worry about. The purpose of a lot of marketing is to instill fear of making a mistake into consumers. This is especially true for relatively mature commodity type products, like say flashlight batteries or solar modules. There is really little difference between them so the companies' marketing folks try to come up with stuff to make you afraid to buy the other guy's product. Since they all do that the consumer often winds up confused and afraid of buying anything which hurts everyone's sales.
|
|
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
|
StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 7:43am |
Thank you for the clarification. The trick of horizontal on cloudy days is good to know. Also, that is a good explanation of why some are positive ground. I still don't know how one of these positive grounded setups (which are much less expensive in the price comparisons I was doing on Amazon) would work with the RPod. Would it even matter as long as the correct polarity is observed when connecting the charge controller's wiring to the battery (whether direct or through the solar port)? I just got to thinking though. This has drifted from the original topic. It is, however, very good information for anyone wishing to do a solar setup. It would be nice if the solar related posts could be moved to their own topic and pinned.
|
|
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
|
offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 7:25am |
Sorry to give the impression that you have to have full sun to get output from a PV module. Being a professional in this technology I tend to gloss over things sometimes. The topic I was adressing was differences between the various solar module manufacturer's low light performance, which is negligible. The output current of solar modules is essentially linear with solar irradiance. If you have a very cloudy day you might get about 10% of one sun. A day with high cirrus cloud cover might be 50-80%. So under very cloudy conditions a solar module will produce about 10% of the current that it produces under full sun conditions. That is because one photon of sunlight produces one electron-hole pair in the silicon which the solar cell is fabricated from. Nothing you can do about that, you can't collect energy that isn't there. One trick you can do on a very cloudy day is lay the module horizontally rather than point it towards the sun. if you can't tell where the sun is the module can't either so its better to lay it flat so it can collect sunlight scattered around the whole sky by the clouds. Re the positive vs. negative ground issue, I think you are perhaps referring to the surface polarization problem Sunpower's early products had in high voltage negtive grounded grid tie applications. The module frames must be grounded on these large high voltage systems for safety and when you do that it imposes an electric field between the glass surface and the top surface of the solar cells. In Sunpower's case they depended on what is effectively a static charge on the front cell surface to achieve their really high cell efficiencies and the electric field from negative grounding bled that off. Sunpower is far from being a cheap product though. Other manufacturer's might have had this issue too but I haven't heard about it. The surface passivation issue wouldn't effect our little 12V systems because the voltage is so low and we're not grounding the frames on these portable modules anyway. Besides, Sunpower doen't make their products the same way now as they did in the 00's so its no longer a problem for them even in high voltage negatively grounded systems. That doesn't stop other companies' marketing ppl from making stuff up of course... (disclaimer, I've never worked for Sunpower or owned their stock ) |
|
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
|
GlueGuy
Senior Member Joined: 15 May 2017 Location: N. California Online Status: Offline Posts: 2630 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 10:12am |
There is a difference with some solar panels in low light. In one of our remote comm sites, we had replaced some SunWize panels in a location where we often had a marine layer of fog with some Trina panels. I was surprised with how much more energy we got from the Trina panels (versus the SunWize panels) when there was heavy fog. This was a situation where there was a fair amount of "light", but not direct sun. That said, get full sun whenever you can.
|
|
bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
|
Markie
Groupie Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Location: Chambersburg PA Online Status: Offline Posts: 67 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 9:24pm |
Everyone's situation is different. I truly learned alot and I hope this discussion answered some questions of others considering upgrading. It certainly helped me. Thanks again.
|
|
Mark & Vicki
R-POD 178 & 2015 Silverado 5.3L Weimeraner "Zeke" |
|
StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 9:08pm |
I am glad we were able to have this discussion. In our case, the weight savings and the ability to put a dual LP tank mount which will help with a planned 10,000+ mile trip meant that the LiFePO4 made sense for us. However, we did just fine also with dual 6V batteries and I expect you will also.
|
|
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
|
Markie
Groupie Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Location: Chambersburg PA Online Status: Offline Posts: 67 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 9:02pm |
Well thank you all so much for responding. You all seem to have good input. The issue with the old converter was a concern. I had heard Lithium were different somehow and from life experience old technology isnt forward compatible. The price of a new converter along with the the 100Ah lithium doesnt make sense for my situation. It also sounds like solar wont work well enough for my situation unless I could find just the right campsite. I do have a generator to recharge when campground rules permit so that will stay. I need a new battery anyway so I will replace it and to increase discharge time it looks like two 6v is the way to go. Thanks to all for your input, it really helped.
|
|
Mark & Vicki
R-POD 178 & 2015 Silverado 5.3L Weimeraner "Zeke" |
|
StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 8:02pm |
I'm not sure about that. Cloudy bright still has a good number of photons, just not as many as full sunlight. I have read enough reviews of solar panels from people who have stated that they do perform in non-direct sunlight situations, just not as well. It isn't a total binary situation where it either has full sunlight and works or it does not have full sunlight and does not work. If one can place the panel(s) in full sunlight, that is best. Sometimes, one has no choice as full, direct sunlight is not available. In that case, one takes what one can get. I agree though that one should not be swayed by marketing hype. Also, watch out for some of the lower-priced panels. In the specifications, they state that they are made for a positive ground (or common positive) situation. The RPods are wired for negative ground (common negative). The Renogy one I just ordered is negative ground so it will work without issue.
|
|
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
|
offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 7:37pm |
Not really. That is marketing hype. If the photons aren't there you don't get the electrons, just basic quantum physics. Don't pay more for a solar module because it has "better low light performance". Put the solar module in full sun, even partial shade on a single cell will kill the output current because the cells are all in series.
|
|
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
|
Post Reply | Page <1234 7> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |