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Topic ClosedWDH or no WDH???
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2629 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: WDH or no WDH???
    Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 2:24pm
Just an FYI, this is the sticker affixed to the hitch on our F-150. Just based on the numbers, it would imply that the point at which this F-150 needs a WDH is closer to 100% than 50% (empty weight of our F-150 is close to 5400 lbs).
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule

Originally posted by GlueGuy

 

That's the whole point. The tongue weight that is shifted toward the front axle is actually removed from the rear axle. Hence, with the right setup, air bags probably won't be needed in the first place AND you won't be unloading the weight on the front axle. 

Well, that is the point. How? 
The weight being transferred forward is on the hitch, connected to the frame. The point of weight is at the rear. You didn't change the fulcrum point, you adjusted it. 

I honestly don't get the physic's behind this.. I see more of reduction of weight forward to balance the TV and more being send back to the TT to balance. In my mind I also see additional stress on the tongue frame. But what do I know..

Please explain how.. I'm very curious!

You're thinking about the wdh moving weight around but it really works by moving moments (torques) around. Its what's called a statics problem in mechanical and structural engineering. Every moment and force is countered by an equal and opposite moment or force, otherwise things would just keep moving. Statics works or bridges and buildings would fall down and that would be bad Thumbs Down

Imagine looking at your rig from the passenger side. The spring bars are being pulled up and the trailer and TV frames down which is trying to rotate the trailer counterclockwise and the tow vehicle clockwise.  Both are trying to rotate around the tow ball (the fulcrum). Something has to stop the two vehicles from actually rotating. That is countered by added forces on the trailer wheels and the front wheels of of the TV. So the loads on both those axles get higher in order to counter the moments caused by the wdh trying to rotate the two vehicles. The total weight of the rig doesn't go up of course so the added force on the trailer and TV front axles has to be countered by lowered force on the TV rear axle so that everything nets out. 

Make sense?
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2629 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule

Originally posted by GlueGuy

That's the whole point. The tongue weight that is shifted toward the front axle is actually removed from the rear axle. Hence, with the right setup, air bags probably won't be needed in the first place AND you won't be unloading the weight on the front axle. 
Well, that is the point. How? 
The weight being transferred forward is on the hitch, connected to the frame. The point of weight is at the rear. You didn't change the fulcrum point, you adjusted it. 

I honestly don't get the physic's behind this.. I see more of reduction of weight forward to balance the TV and more being send back to the TT to balance. In my mind I also see additional stress on the tongue frame. But what do I know..

Please explain how.. I'm very curious!
You don't have to take my word for it. Maybe you could watch this video for what I think is a very good explanation why using a WDH is better than just using airbags.
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by podwerkz


That is probably the reason I don't feel the need for a wdh or sway control. The pickup has 'authority' over the r-pod at all times when towing. Never a hint of sway.

Ya, well that will change in higher winds.. You dragging a pretty big sail back there. To each their own.
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2629 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 4:48pm
Of course, if you get one of these, you won't need air bags, WDH, or pretty much anything. You could probably put 2 or 3 R-pods on a big flatbed and tow all of them at the same time.
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Posts: 966 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 11:42pm
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule


Ya, well that will change in higher winds.. You dragging a pretty big sail back there. To each their own.


What do you consider 'higher winds'?

I simply will not be towing in 50 mph sidewinds....with or without a wd hitch. 

In all normal conditions, including reasonable head, tail, and broadside winds, that I drive in, it has been fine. And most of that towing has been out here in the flats....and we get plenty of wind out here.
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Olddawgsrule View Drop Down
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 8:19am
Originally posted by GlueGuy

 
You don't have to take my word for it. Maybe you could watch this video for what I think is a very good explanation why using a WDH is better than just using airbags.


[/QUOTE]

The video is pretty good comparing, yet they only adjusted each back to baseline, not level. I do wish they had gone to level. 

What it does also show is what I believed true. You are only transferring weight between the TT axle and essentially the TV rear axle. You are adjusting that weight to level the TV out. Even by their explanation, they lightened the front axle weight. What surprised me is that your gaining weight by combining the two (TT & TV). Is this additional weight/force/momentum added to the hitch frame? That bothers me..

So here's the numbers from their example using a 1000lb tongue weight divided down to our 385lb (10% of trailer gross) max tongue weight (MHO on max).

With WD : Truck weight increases 270lbs / Trailer weight increases 115lbs
Airbags : Truck weight increases 350lbs / Trailer weight increases 35lbs  

I doubt you can divide down as I've down and be accurate, but it does show a comparison between the two. I will also run this will the program suggested and find out the results from there to compare to these.

My conclusion (and OMHO) is it depends what you can afford for weight and where. I have 1620lbs of capacity, so airbags could be a reasonable alternative and placing only 30% of additional weight on the trailer compared to a WDH.
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 8:40am
Originally posted by offgrid

 

You're thinking about the wdh moving weight around but it really works by moving moments (torques) around. Its what's called a statics problem in mechanical and structural engineering. Every moment and force is countered by an equal and opposite moment or force, otherwise things would just keep moving. Statics works or bridges and buildings would fall down and that would be bad Thumbs Down

Imagine looking at your rig from the passenger side. The spring bars are being pulled up and the trailer and TV frames down which is trying to rotate the trailer counterclockwise and the tow vehicle clockwise.  Both are trying to rotate around the tow ball (the fulcrum). Something has to stop the two vehicles from actually rotating. That is countered by added forces on the trailer wheels and the front wheels of of the TV. So the loads on both those axles get higher in order to counter the moments caused by the wdh trying to rotate the two vehicles. The total weight of the rig doesn't go up of course so the added force on the trailer and TV front axles has to be countered by lowered force on the TV rear axle so that everything nets out. 

Make sense?

Yes it does and helps my understanding. Thank you! 

<The total weight of the rig doesn't go up of course so the added force on the trailer and TV front axles has to be countered by lowered force on the TV rear axle so that everything nets out. >

By the example Fastway did, it actually did add a combined weight increase being distributed. That surprised me a bit. 

<Both are trying to rotate around the tow ball (the fulcrum)>

Thats what I always have believed and made sense in my mind. 
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 10:04am
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule


By the example Fastway did, it actually did add a combined weight increase being distributed. That surprised me a bit. 
 

Can't be. Gravity sucks the same whether the wdh is there or not. Other than the small increase from the weight of the wdh itself of course. When you use the towing calculator the wdh should be considered part of the TV weight btw.

There is a ton of inaccurate information floating around cyberspace on how wdh's work. 
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Olddawgsrule View Drop Down
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by podwerkz

Originally posted by Olddawgsrule


Ya, well that will change in higher winds.. You dragging a pretty big sail back there. To each their own.


What do you consider 'higher winds'?

I simply will not be towing in 50 mph sidewinds....with or without a wd hitch. 

In all normal conditions, including reasonable head, tail, and broadside winds, that I drive in, it has been fine. And most of that towing has been out here in the flats....and we get plenty of wind out here.

I tour for months. Sometimes you just have to. And it doesn't take 50mph wind to toss you. We can debate WDH or Airbags to life's end, yet I don't think sway control is much of a debate. Your choice as always.
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