WDH or no WDH???
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13187
Printed Date: 04 May 2024 at 12:42am
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Topic: WDH or no WDH???
Posted By: ArenaBlanca
Subject: WDH or no WDH???
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 9:07am
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Three years ago while in northern NM, we purchased a 179. I bought a 2 inch ball from a local Tractor Supply store and towed the 179 home to southern NM with my 2004 ¾ ton pick-up. The ride seemed a bit bouncy and sway was noticeable when I got caught in a dust devil. So I replaced the shocks (they were the original shocks for the truck) and added a sway control bar. The trailer connection for the sway bar was welded onto the camper frame. But the combination of new shocks and the sway bar solved the bounce and sway issues. Last week we traded our beloved 179 for a new 195 from the same dealer in Colorado. Because this was a trade and part of the sway control was welded to the camper frame, I towed home without sway control. The tow vehicle was the same ¾ ton pick-up. It is a diesel and only has 140,000 miles on it. The ride also seemed a bit bouncier than I was used to but I figured this was due to the extra tongue weight of the 195. I feel safer with sway control although many believe I don't absolutely need it with this tow vehicle. So I am planning on adding sway control. I am wondering whether a weight distributing hitch would dampen the bouncing as well provide sway control. If so, what make and model would you suggest?
------------- Enjoy Life!! |
Replies:
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 9:52am
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We pull with a 2015 F-150, and we find the WDH makes the trailer+truck move together as more of a "unit". We believe we could tow without the WDH, but we like the combination better with it. ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: ArenaBlanca
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 11:39am
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I was thinking the same thing. Do you have a suggested make/model? I have a WDH for another camper but that camper has almost 900 lbs of tongue weight. ------------- Enjoy Life!! |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 5:20pm
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5 years with a Chevy Silverado 4X4, 2015 178, sway control, no WDH, no issues. It's a personal choice. Last time I had a WDH was a 25' plus Airstream, towed with a 3500 Chevy dually. My current tongue weight is @370. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 6:28am
+1. With a 3/4 ton pickup, you shouldn't need a wdh, but you might prefer the ride with one. Sway control couldn't hurt. Some wdh's have integrated sway control, some are completely separate systems. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Pod People
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 8:04am
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We tow our 179 with a Ford Expedition El. I'm sure we don't NEED a wdh--however, I am also sure that the wdh adds a safety factor in 2 ways that it is designed for. One, it does help the ride by making the tow vehicle and rpod more of a unit as well as leveling the vehicle. secondly, the anti-sway properties have made it safer and also peace of mind. This is our second rpod-we had a 173 prior to the 179. we have towed both units all over the country, including 2 cross country NC-California round trips. We have never experienced sway. We use an Equalizer 4 point hitch system with 600 pound bars for both pods withut issue. maybe the best $550 I have spent on rv items. There are several other important considerations in thinking about eliminating sway. Good tires(Goodyear Endurance ) with a stiff sidewall and properly inflated go a long way in eliminating potential sway issues. the second important thing is properly loading the pod with weight forward of the axle and having the correct amount of tongue weight. tow vehicle suspension and the pod being level when towed are also considerations. Vann ------------- Vann & Laura 2015 RPod 179 https://postimg.cc/0zwKrfB9"> 
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Posted By: crankster78
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 8:59am
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Greetings: I have owned 2 pods and for years I did not have a WDH. I purchased and installed one this past spring. I have found that it does make a difference even with my long wheel base PU. It is easier to steer, feels better on the road, It reduces wear and tear on the truck. It was a good investment. My 179 has dual LP tanks and a electric hitch jack, so it very likely has a hitch weight in the upper 400 pound range. The hitch I installed is a Equal-izer R3 Crankster78 F-150 R-179 ------------- Crankster 78 R-179 2015 |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2019 at 6:13pm
I just came across https://campaddict.com/weight-distribution-hitch/ - this article as a link attached to a story about someone's receiver failing, and losing their trailer (it was in a campground, and at low speed, so no great damage was done). It is interesting as it states the "general rule" is that you "should" use a WDH if the trailer weighs more than 50% of the tow vehicle weight. To quote the statement:
The owner's manual of our F-150 recommends using a WDH if the tongue weight is over 500 lbs. That is well above the recommendation of the above article, but none-the-less there is a lot of good information in this article and all in one place. Not a bad place to start.
------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 5:46am
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The basics of this article are fine, and it gives a great explanation about how to weigh your rig at a public scale. I don't agree though with their hitch recommendations (other than the Hensley being the best of the best). The Anderson chain system is under a lot or tension so puts some weird stresses on the trailer frame. Despite their disclaimers it sure reads like an Anderson advertisement....I'll stick with spring arms myself, thanks. Also, the weakness of the designs where the spring arms also provide the antisway friction is that you can't separately control the two functions. That is probably fine for most folks but I like being able to set up the two functions independently. I often want to have full weight distribution with little or no antisway when on wet pavement or low speed twisty mountain roads. And, when backing into a tight campsite it only takes a couple of seconds to take off separate antisway bars because they aren't under tension. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 6:30am
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I tow with my Tacoma. I would think the same option for all 1/2 ton TV's.. What's the thought on air-bags vs. WDH. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 8:47am
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They function differently, simply air bags lift the rear but do not have the same weight transferring capability as a WDH. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 9:36am
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+1. Air bags and helper springs don’t transfer any load back to the front axle, or reduce the load on the TV rear axle. What they do is make the TV ride more level by lifting the rear axle height. I’d go with a WDH first and only add airbags if you’re still not satisfied with the rear ride height of your tv after adjusting the wdh properly. If you do run both then adjust the wdh after airing up the bags. If you do it the other way around the two systems will be fighting each other. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 9:43am
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The Hensley (what we now have) has a lot going for it which it should. Not only does it remove the primary cause of sway (the truck can turn the trailer, but the trailer can't turn the truck), but it also offers WD. The Hensley Cub (with the jack screws) is easy to use. I tried the Swift Cub (with chains and snap-up lever and less expensive than the jack screws) but found that too difficult for me with my arthritis. One big down side though is the WD bars are low. I wish they would redesign it to have bars like the trunion bars that plug into sockets like the Equal-i-zer. That would make for better ground clearance. As for air bags, I opted for https://www.supersprings.com/products/sumosprings - SumoSprings , which are urethane springs that replace the bump stop on our Frontier. The leaf springs are well worn and soft so the SumoSprings improve the ride and keep the truck from bottoming out when we hit bumps. Even with WD, it was not the best ride before I installed the SumoSprings. I still need the WD of the Hensley Cub, but think they would be great with a different WD hitch also. The WD is still needed to transfer weight to the front axle for steering, even if it isn't needed to lift the back end as much. With this combination, I find I am no longer bottoming out when I exit or back into my driveway. I started with the blue (1000 lbs) springs but switched to the black (1500 lb) springs. I have been quite pleased with the performance of the SumoSprings. The yellow (2000 lb, I think) springs would have been too much. The advantage of the urethane springs is that they are not subject to punctures and loss of air. For us, they really improved the ride also. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 10:18am
------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 11:29am
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Guys, I have the Fastway E2 round bar. I bought it mainly due to costs. It wasn't that much more than a really good anti-sway system. I've always felt I have no need for WD except to raise the Taco to level when towing. Same can be done with quality air bags. Now yes, WD does sends weight forward. I never gone through how much actually makes it to the front tires. My understanding is 2/3'rds forward and 1/3rd back on the trailer. With that said, how is that additional weight is effecting the A hitch/tongue frame? I believe quite a bit. I'll also say that this would not be a option for many out their towing with lighter vehicles. It's interesting Stephen that you have both.. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 12:41pm
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Here is a good towing calculator, I've checked the math in it and its right. You will need some actual weights and dimensions to run it. The intent with a WDH is to get the weight on the front axle back to where it was without the trailer on there. You control that by how much tension you put on the spring bars. You won't end up with the exact 2/3 1/3 distribution unless by chance, the actual distribution is determined by the TV wheel base, the distance from the TV rear axle to the ball, and from the ball to the trailer axle. A 182 on a Taco is a pretty heavy load, I would think a wdh would be a good investment. It definitely helps out with my Highlander, I wouldn't tow without one. http://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php - http://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 1:36pm
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I will run it. Thank you! You're a pretty smart dude and appreciate your input. So here's the question.. A WDH sends weight forward, I get that. What I don't get is how it's different from upping the rear suspension. Your transferring weight onto the TV frame through the hitch. The frame now has additional weight, no? In my mind, as you adjust the hitch, you're adjusting that weigh forward/back to balance the TV. It also seems to me you actually place more stress upon the tongue frame to do so. I'm just a simple person that tries to understand these things and I'll tell ya... This WDH confuses the heck out out me.. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 1:51pm
There is a small amount of weight shifted toward the trailer axle, but depending on the moment arms between the hitch and the trailer axle, it might be a lot less than you might anticipate. The only downside to a WDH (in my mind) is the small amount of time it takes to connect it up when you go on a trip. ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 1:52pm
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I think the 50% number is interesting. That's the figure we use in motorcycle touring for trailer towing also...except there is no such thing as a wdh for motorcycle trailers....that figure is considered as a rule-of-thumb weight limit of the trailer, for safety. My pickup with myself and all gear aboard (and the topper) weighs about 7200 pounds....and the r-pod weighs about 3000 or so....give or take on both. That is probably the reason I don't feel the need for a wdh or sway control. The pickup has 'authority' over the r-pod at all times when towing. Never a hint of sway. ------------- r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten! |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 2:07pm
Well, that is the point. How? The weight being transferred forward is on the hitch, connected to the frame. The point of weight is at the rear. You didn't change the fulcrum point, you adjusted it. I honestly don't get the physic's behind this.. I see more of reduction of weight forward to balance the TV and more being send back to the TT to balance. In my mind I also see additional stress on the tongue frame. But what do I know.. Please explain how.. I'm very curious! ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 2:24pm
Just an FYI, this is the sticker affixed to the hitch on our F-150. Just based on the numbers, it would imply that the point at which this F-150 needs a WDH is closer to 100% than 50% (empty weight of our F-150 is close to 5400 lbs). ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 2:31pm
You're thinking about the wdh moving weight around but it really works by moving moments (torques) around. Its what's called a statics problem in mechanical and structural engineering. Every moment and force is countered by an equal and opposite moment or force, otherwise things would just keep moving. Statics works or bridges and buildings would fall down and that would be bad  Imagine looking at your rig from the passenger side. The spring bars are being pulled up and the trailer and TV frames down which is trying to rotate the trailer counterclockwise and the tow vehicle clockwise. Both are trying to rotate around the tow ball (the fulcrum). Something has to stop the two vehicles from actually rotating. That is countered by added forces on the trailer wheels and the front wheels of of the TV. So the loads on both those axles get higher in order to counter the moments caused by the wdh trying to rotate the two vehicles. The total weight of the rig doesn't go up of course so the added force on the trailer and TV front axles has to be countered by lowered force on the TV rear axle so that everything nets out. Make sense?
------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 2:38pm
------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 2:42pm
Ya, well that will change in higher winds.. You dragging a pretty big sail back there. To each their own. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 4:48pm
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Of course, if you get https://www.tfltruck.com/2019/09/2020-ford-super-duty-can-tow-a-staggering-37000-lbs-here-are-all-the-diesel-specs-breaking-news/ - one of these , you won't need air bags, WDH, or pretty much anything. You could probably put 2 or 3 R-pods on a big flatbed and tow all of them at the same time. ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 11:42pm
What do you consider 'higher winds'? I simply will not be towing in 50 mph sidewinds....with or without a wd hitch. In all normal conditions, including reasonable head, tail, and broadside winds, that I drive in, it has been fine. And most of that towing has been out here in the flats....and we get plenty of wind out here.
------------- r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten! |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 8:19am
The video is pretty good comparing, yet they only adjusted each back to baseline, not level. I do wish they had gone to level. What it does also show is what I believed true. You are only transferring weight between the TT axle and essentially the TV rear axle. You are adjusting that weight to level the TV out. Even by their explanation, they lightened the front axle weight. What surprised me is that your gaining weight by combining the two (TT & TV). Is this additional weight/force/momentum added to the hitch frame? That bothers me.. So here's the numbers from their example using a 1000lb tongue weight divided down to our 385lb (10% of trailer gross) max tongue weight (MHO on max). With WD : Truck weight increases 270lbs / Trailer weight increases 115lbs Airbags : Truck weight increases 350lbs / Trailer weight increases 35lbs I doubt you can divide down as I've down and be accurate, but it does show a comparison between the two. I will also run this will the program suggested and find out the results from there to compare to these. My conclusion (and OMHO) is it depends what you can afford for weight and where. I have 1620lbs of capacity, so airbags could be a reasonable alternative and placing only 30% of additional weight on the trailer compared to a WDH. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 8:40am
Yes it does and helps my understanding. Thank you! <The total weight of the rig doesn't go up of course so the added force on the trailer and TV front axles has to be countered by lowered force on the TV rear axle so that everything nets out. > By the example Fastway did, it actually did add a combined weight increase being distributed. That surprised me a bit. <Both are trying to rotate around the tow ball (the fulcrum)> Thats what I always have believed and made sense in my mind. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 10:04am
Can't be. Gravity sucks the same whether the wdh is there or not. Other than the small increase from the weight of the wdh itself of course. When you use the towing calculator the wdh should be considered part of the TV weight btw. There is a ton of inaccurate information floating around cyberspace on how wdh's work.
------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 2:56pm
I tour for months. Sometimes you just have to. And it doesn't take 50mph wind to toss you. We can debate WDH or Airbags to life's end, yet I don't think sway control is much of a debate. Your choice as always. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 3:12pm
I hear ya! That's why it surprised me. They used a 1000lb hitch weight setup for their test. Suddenly there's 1210lbs split between the TV/TT with airbag and 1480lbs being split with WDH. Now I don't know the Physics involved here and why I ask such questions.. I wish to understand as I can understand, to the extent of making a good decision. I by all means don't wish to be a PITA.. My assumption was, by their example, that once coupled (and setup) you gain some from both the TT & TV. I guess that's possible in both instances. You can see the numbers in their example by adding the gained weight to both the TT & TV. I would be disappointed in Fastway if their putting out bad info.. I figure I'm just mis-reading what they presented. I do apologize for not running the calculator yet.. I'm kinda running between a few things today and taking a break to catch up here. I promise I will. I really wish to compare notes! ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 9:58pm
I'm not using airbags...no need. I might get a pair of Timbrens but have not pulled the trigger on those. You always have a choice when it comes to dangerous driving conditions....my choice is to shut down BEFORE I see daylight under my tires!  ------------- r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten! |
Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2019 at 7:58am
Hadn't seen those.. Same idea as the SumoSpring (pretty close in cost as well). Interesting. Update: Went to two of my Tacoma Forums and find both the Timbrens & Sumo's being used. Seems some are actually adjusting the Sumo's by cutting them to fit their need. Very interesting. Thank you for passing those along!
------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2019 at 9:56am
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Yeah the Timbrens and probably the Sumos are kinda like a bumpstop on steroids...and unlike air springs, no effect at all until the load gets heavy or you bottom out on a bump or dip. ------------- r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten! |