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Topic ClosedWDH or no WDH???
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Olddawgsrule View Drop Down
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: WDH or no WDH???
    Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by podwerkz


That is probably the reason I don't feel the need for a wdh or sway control. The pickup has 'authority' over the r-pod at all times when towing. Never a hint of sway.

Ya, well that will change in higher winds.. You dragging a pretty big sail back there. To each their own.
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule

Originally posted by GlueGuy

That's the whole point. The tongue weight that is shifted toward the front axle is actually removed from the rear axle. Hence, with the right setup, air bags probably won't be needed in the first place AND you won't be unloading the weight on the front axle. 
Well, that is the point. How? 
The weight being transferred forward is on the hitch, connected to the frame. The point of weight is at the rear. You didn't change the fulcrum point, you adjusted it. 

I honestly don't get the physic's behind this.. I see more of reduction of weight forward to balance the TV and more being send back to the TT to balance. In my mind I also see additional stress on the tongue frame. But what do I know..

Please explain how.. I'm very curious!
You don't have to take my word for it. Maybe you could watch this video for what I think is a very good explanation why using a WDH is better than just using airbags.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule

Originally posted by GlueGuy

 

That's the whole point. The tongue weight that is shifted toward the front axle is actually removed from the rear axle. Hence, with the right setup, air bags probably won't be needed in the first place AND you won't be unloading the weight on the front axle. 

Well, that is the point. How? 
The weight being transferred forward is on the hitch, connected to the frame. The point of weight is at the rear. You didn't change the fulcrum point, you adjusted it. 

I honestly don't get the physic's behind this.. I see more of reduction of weight forward to balance the TV and more being send back to the TT to balance. In my mind I also see additional stress on the tongue frame. But what do I know..

Please explain how.. I'm very curious!

You're thinking about the wdh moving weight around but it really works by moving moments (torques) around. Its what's called a statics problem in mechanical and structural engineering. Every moment and force is countered by an equal and opposite moment or force, otherwise things would just keep moving. Statics works or bridges and buildings would fall down and that would be bad Thumbs Down

Imagine looking at your rig from the passenger side. The spring bars are being pulled up and the trailer and TV frames down which is trying to rotate the trailer counterclockwise and the tow vehicle clockwise.  Both are trying to rotate around the tow ball (the fulcrum). Something has to stop the two vehicles from actually rotating. That is countered by added forces on the trailer wheels and the front wheels of of the TV. So the loads on both those axles get higher in order to counter the moments caused by the wdh trying to rotate the two vehicles. The total weight of the rig doesn't go up of course so the added force on the trailer and TV front axles has to be countered by lowered force on the TV rear axle so that everything nets out. 

Make sense?
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 2:24pm
Just an FYI, this is the sticker affixed to the hitch on our F-150. Just based on the numbers, it would imply that the point at which this F-150 needs a WDH is closer to 100% than 50% (empty weight of our F-150 is close to 5400 lbs).
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Olddawgsrule View Drop Down
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

 

That's the whole point. The tongue weight that is shifted toward the front axle is actually removed from the rear axle. Hence, with the right setup, air bags probably won't be needed in the first place AND you won't be unloading the weight on the front axle. 

Well, that is the point. How? 
The weight being transferred forward is on the hitch, connected to the frame. The point of weight is at the rear. You didn't change the fulcrum point, you adjusted it. 

I honestly don't get the physic's behind this.. I see more of reduction of weight forward to balance the TV and more being send back to the TT to balance. In my mind I also see additional stress on the tongue frame. But what do I know..

Please explain how.. I'm very curious!
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podwerkz View Drop Down
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Posts: 966 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 1:52pm
I think the 50% number is interesting. That's the figure we use in motorcycle touring for trailer towing also...except there is no such thing as a wdh for motorcycle trailers....that figure is considered as a rule-of-thumb weight limit of the trailer, for safety. 

My pickup with myself and all gear aboard (and the topper) weighs about 7200 pounds....and the r-pod weighs about 3000 or so....give or take on both. 

That is probably the reason I don't feel the need for a wdh or sway control. The pickup has 'authority' over the r-pod at all times when towing. Never a hint of sway.
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule

I will run it. Thank you!

You're a pretty smart dude and appreciate your input. So here's the question..

A WDH sends weight forward, I get that. What I don't get is how it's different from upping the rear suspension. Your transferring weight onto the TV frame through the hitch. The frame now has additional weight, no? In my mind, as you adjust the hitch, you're adjusting that weigh forward/back to balance the TV. It also seems to me you actually place more stress upon the tongue frame to do so.

I'm just a simple person that tries to understand these things and I'll tell ya... This WDH confuses the heck out out me..
That's the whole point. The tongue weight that is shifted toward the front axle is actually removed from the rear axle. Hence, with the right setup, air bags probably won't be needed in the first place AND you won't be unloading the weight on the front axle. 

There is a small amount of weight shifted toward the trailer axle, but depending on the moment arms between the hitch and the trailer axle, it might be a lot less than you might anticipate.

The only downside to a WDH (in my mind) is the small amount of time it takes to connect it up when you go on a trip.
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Olddawgsrule View Drop Down
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 1:36pm
I will run it. Thank you!

You're a pretty smart dude and appreciate your input. So here's the question..

A WDH sends weight forward, I get that. What I don't get is how it's different from upping the rear suspension. Your transferring weight onto the TV frame through the hitch. The frame now has additional weight, no? In my mind, as you adjust the hitch, you're adjusting that weigh forward/back to balance the TV. It also seems to me you actually place more stress upon the tongue frame to do so.

I'm just a simple person that tries to understand these things and I'll tell ya... This WDH confuses the heck out out me.. 
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 12:41pm
Here is a good towing calculator, I've checked the math in it and its right. 

You will need some actual weights and  dimensions to run it. The intent with a WDH is to get the weight on the front axle back to where it was without the trailer on there. You control that by how much tension you put on the spring bars. You won't end up with the exact 2/3 1/3 distribution unless by chance, the actual distribution is determined by the TV wheel base, the distance from the TV rear axle to the ball, and from the ball to the trailer axle. 

A 182 on a Taco is a pretty heavy load, I would think a wdh would be a good investment. It definitely helps out with my Highlander, I wouldn't tow without one. 
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Olddawgsrule View Drop Down
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 11:29am
Guys, I have the Fastway E2 round bar. I bought it mainly due to costs. It wasn't that much more than a really good anti-sway system.

I've always felt I have no need for WD except to raise the Taco to level when towing. Same can be done with quality air bags. 

Now yes, WD does sends weight forward. I never gone through how much actually makes it to the front tires. My understanding is 2/3'rds forward and 1/3rd back on the trailer. With that said, how is that additional weight is effecting the A hitch/tongue frame? I believe quite a bit.

I'll also say that this would not be a option for many out their towing with lighter vehicles. 

It's interesting Stephen that you have both..  
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