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podwerkz View Drop Down
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Posts: 966 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: WDH or no WDH???
    Posted: 28 Sep 2019 at 9:56am
Yeah the Timbrens and probably the Sumos are kinda like a bumpstop on steroids...and unlike air springs, no effect at all until the load gets heavy or you bottom out on a bump or dip.
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Olddawgsrule View Drop Down
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2019 at 7:58am
Originally posted by podwerkz

 

I'm not using airbags...no need. I might get a pair of Timbrens but have not pulled the trigger on those. 


Hadn't seen those.. Same idea as the SumoSpring (pretty close in cost as well). Interesting.

Update: Went to two of my Tacoma Forums and find both the Timbrens & Sumo's being used. Seems some are actually adjusting the Sumo's by cutting them to fit their need. Very interesting.

Thank you for passing those along!
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podwerkz View Drop Down
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Posts: 966 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule

 

I tour for months. Sometimes you just have to. And it doesn't take 50mph wind to toss you. We can debate WDH or Airbags to life's end, yet I don't think sway control is much of a debate. Your choice as always.


I'm not using airbags...no need. I might get a pair of Timbrens but have not pulled the trigger on those. 

You always have a choice when it comes to dangerous driving conditions....my choice is to shut down BEFORE I see daylight under my tires!

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Olddawgsrule View Drop Down
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by offgrid

Originally posted by Olddawgsrule


By the example Fastway did, it actually did add a combined weight increase being distributed. That surprised me a bit. 
 

Can't be. Gravity sucks the same whether the wdh is there or not. Other that the small increase from the weight of the wdh itself of course. When you use the towing calculator the wdh should be considered part of the TV weight btw.

There is a ton of inaccurate information floating around cyberspace on how wdh's work. 

I hear ya! That's why it surprised me. They used a 1000lb hitch weight setup for their test. Suddenly there's 1210lbs split between the TV/TT with airbag and 1480lbs being split with WDH. 
Now I don't know the Physics involved here and why I ask such questions.. I wish to understand as I can understand, to the extent of making a good decision. I by all means don't wish to be a PITA..

My assumption was, by their example, that once coupled (and setup) you gain some from both the TT & TV. I guess that's possible in both instances. You can see the numbers in their example by adding the gained weight to both the TT & TV. 

I would be disappointed in Fastway if their putting out bad info.. I figure I'm just mis-reading what they presented. 

I do apologize for not running the calculator yet.. I'm kinda running between a few things today and taking a break to catch up here. I promise I will. I really wish to compare notes!
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Olddawgsrule View Drop Down
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by podwerkz

Originally posted by Olddawgsrule


Ya, well that will change in higher winds.. You dragging a pretty big sail back there. To each their own.


What do you consider 'higher winds'?

I simply will not be towing in 50 mph sidewinds....with or without a wd hitch. 

In all normal conditions, including reasonable head, tail, and broadside winds, that I drive in, it has been fine. And most of that towing has been out here in the flats....and we get plenty of wind out here.

I tour for months. Sometimes you just have to. And it doesn't take 50mph wind to toss you. We can debate WDH or Airbags to life's end, yet I don't think sway control is much of a debate. Your choice as always.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 10:04am
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule


By the example Fastway did, it actually did add a combined weight increase being distributed. That surprised me a bit. 
 

Can't be. Gravity sucks the same whether the wdh is there or not. Other than the small increase from the weight of the wdh itself of course. When you use the towing calculator the wdh should be considered part of the TV weight btw.

There is a ton of inaccurate information floating around cyberspace on how wdh's work. 
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 8:40am
Originally posted by offgrid

 

You're thinking about the wdh moving weight around but it really works by moving moments (torques) around. Its what's called a statics problem in mechanical and structural engineering. Every moment and force is countered by an equal and opposite moment or force, otherwise things would just keep moving. Statics works or bridges and buildings would fall down and that would be bad Thumbs Down

Imagine looking at your rig from the passenger side. The spring bars are being pulled up and the trailer and TV frames down which is trying to rotate the trailer counterclockwise and the tow vehicle clockwise.  Both are trying to rotate around the tow ball (the fulcrum). Something has to stop the two vehicles from actually rotating. That is countered by added forces on the trailer wheels and the front wheels of of the TV. So the loads on both those axles get higher in order to counter the moments caused by the wdh trying to rotate the two vehicles. The total weight of the rig doesn't go up of course so the added force on the trailer and TV front axles has to be countered by lowered force on the TV rear axle so that everything nets out. 

Make sense?

Yes it does and helps my understanding. Thank you! 

<The total weight of the rig doesn't go up of course so the added force on the trailer and TV front axles has to be countered by lowered force on the TV rear axle so that everything nets out. >

By the example Fastway did, it actually did add a combined weight increase being distributed. That surprised me a bit. 

<Both are trying to rotate around the tow ball (the fulcrum)>

Thats what I always have believed and made sense in my mind. 
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Posts: 1014 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 8:19am
Originally posted by GlueGuy

 
You don't have to take my word for it. Maybe you could watch this video for what I think is a very good explanation why using a WDH is better than just using airbags.


[/QUOTE]

The video is pretty good comparing, yet they only adjusted each back to baseline, not level. I do wish they had gone to level. 

What it does also show is what I believed true. You are only transferring weight between the TT axle and essentially the TV rear axle. You are adjusting that weight to level the TV out. Even by their explanation, they lightened the front axle weight. What surprised me is that your gaining weight by combining the two (TT & TV). Is this additional weight/force/momentum added to the hitch frame? That bothers me..

So here's the numbers from their example using a 1000lb tongue weight divided down to our 385lb (10% of trailer gross) max tongue weight (MHO on max).

With WD : Truck weight increases 270lbs / Trailer weight increases 115lbs
Airbags : Truck weight increases 350lbs / Trailer weight increases 35lbs  

I doubt you can divide down as I've down and be accurate, but it does show a comparison between the two. I will also run this will the program suggested and find out the results from there to compare to these.

My conclusion (and OMHO) is it depends what you can afford for weight and where. I have 1620lbs of capacity, so airbags could be a reasonable alternative and placing only 30% of additional weight on the trailer compared to a WDH.
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podwerkz View Drop Down
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Posts: 966 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 11:42pm
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule


Ya, well that will change in higher winds.. You dragging a pretty big sail back there. To each their own.


What do you consider 'higher winds'?

I simply will not be towing in 50 mph sidewinds....with or without a wd hitch. 

In all normal conditions, including reasonable head, tail, and broadside winds, that I drive in, it has been fine. And most of that towing has been out here in the flats....and we get plenty of wind out here.
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2629 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 4:48pm
Of course, if you get one of these, you won't need air bags, WDH, or pretty much anything. You could probably put 2 or 3 R-pods on a big flatbed and tow all of them at the same time.
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