R-pod Owners Forum Homepage

This site is free to use.
Donations benefit a non-profit Girls Softball organization

Forum Home Forum Home > R-pod Discussion Forums > Podmods, Maintenance, Tips and Tricks
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Micro-Air easy start
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedMicro-Air easy start

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>
Author
Message
offgrid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Micro-Air easy start
    Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 7:21pm
As far as i was able to determine, many folks have tried start cap configurations with their 13.5 kBTU/Hr a/c's on 2KW gennies and not been able to make them work reliably. So, we can endlessly debate whether the easystart is worth the money or not, but if you need that specific functionality there really isn't any alternative you can count on. 

Re DC a/c's, that has been done many times. I did a 3 ton solar powered 120Vdc icemaking system out in the desert in Egypt. That was back in the early 90's, when inverters were expensive, inefficient, and unreliable.  And conventional a/c's were inefficient. Those days are in the past, I wouldn't design that system the same way now. Now you can get cheap, high efficiency, reliable inverters that allow you to run the new ultra high efficiency a/c of your choice. 

And if I was going to do a dc a/c of any reasonable capacity it wouldn't be at 12V. The resistive losses will kill you. Even a 12KBTU/hr high efficiency a/c will draw about 800W/67A (our crummy a/c's use about 2kW). 67A at 12V over a 20ft conductor run requires 1/0 copper conductor to keep the losses below 3%. 

Start surge capacity shouldn't be a problem with dc battery based systems, batteries aren't current limited like gensets are. The problem will come if the compressor uses a permanent magnet dc motor because the high start currents can demagnetize it. That can be solved with current limiting starting resistors that get switched out after the compressor is up and running. or just use a wound stator dc motor. 
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
Back to Top
podwerkz View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2019
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 966
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 8:46pm
r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!
Back to Top
offgrid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 6:48am
I've looked into Hot Spot before, they're not too far from me. Basically it is a pretty normal mini split a/c unit with a modified motor drive inverter. All the high efficiency mini splits already use variable frequency inverter motor drives to run variable speed ac compressor motors, that's how then get the high SEER efficiency values.

So the Hot Spot a/c has a modified inverter to take dc rather than ac into its AC motor drive, or both for its 12KBTU unit. That one is interesting as it is advertised to be able to run in hybrid mode using solar and 220Vac in parallel. Could be a good way to go for a a grid tied home system where you have 220Vac continuously available and want to mostly use solar for daytime a/c operation, without needing a battery pack. 

They also have a 48Vdc input unit for straight off grid operation which would be more appropriate for boon dock RV'ing. The problem with this is that you're working with a very small company and paying a high price for a customized a/c unit. For my rPod project, I think I'm better off with a conventional inverter and OTS high efficiency mini split from a major company like Mitsubishi or Panasonic. The mini spit price difference will more than pay for the inverter, I can use the inverter to run the microwave and any other AC loads, and I can select an inverter that will run at the battery voltage I want for a Li pack, in my case 24Vdc. 

Haven't seeing the dc airco product but it looks to be a similar configuration. They are targeting industrial and military mobile markets so they ain't exactly gonna be cheap...

1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
Back to Top
crankster78 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08 May 2018
Location: Minn
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 163
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 8:45am
Greetings:
I have installed a 30 amp receptacle both at my home and at the family lake cottage.  I used 10 gauge wire for both with a 30 amp breakers.  I dry camp usually in the fall and use my Honda 2000.  I seldom have much need to run the air.  I don't like all the noise that it makes. Of course I live in MN.  We had only a few 90 degree days this summer.  If I were to replace my Honda, I would most likely buy a Champion 3000 watt inverter.  I'm not a fan of solar.  
Crankster78  R 179  2015
Crankster 78 R-179 2015
Back to Top
StephenH View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6288
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 9:42am
I tried a hard-start capacitor and sure enough, it made the AC hard to start. Without, the iX2000 would start the AC. With the HS, it immediately put the generator in overload. The HS capacitor got removed and returned ASAP.

I installed the EasyStart. What a difference! The AC does not have that same jolt of the compressor when it starts. It is much smoother. Admittedly, it is somewhat subjective as I have no hard data, just what my ear hears.
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS
Back to Top
Olddawgsrule View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Location: New Hampshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1014
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by StephenH

I tried a hard-start capacitor and sure enough, it made the AC hard to start. Without, the iX2000 would start the AC. With the HS, it immediately put the generator in overload. The HS capacitor got removed and returned ASAP.

I installed the EasyStart. What a difference! The AC does not have that same jolt of the compressor when it starts. It is much smoother. Admittedly, it is somewhat subjective as I have no hard data, just what my ear hears.

Not just any will work! As you now know. I have a eight capacitor bank on a low light solar system I'm testing. They have to be EE'd.. to fit the need. 

I don't have AC in my unit, so never went to the effort to work it out.
Byways no Highways
2017 Tacoma
Truck Camper Build
2004 F150 My Overlander
Back to Top
Olddawgsrule View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Location: New Hampshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1014
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 3:52pm
Sorry, I got pulled away..

It would be interesting if someone that has a Easy-Start, that is beyond warranty, to open it up and see what capacitors are actually in there.

Think about this folks. In order for a developer of a product he wants at least 150% of his costs (ideally 200%) for the product to be viable to produce. Then comes marketing and outlets (re-sellers) to get said product out to the masses (us). The reseller to handle and promote wants 150% of his costs.

With some give and take, and of course now for them mass buying power. That puts the unit somewhere in the area of $100- 150 for us to copy. If so learned as to how. Is all the other electronic's required. Not in my mind... Bells and whistles for regulations so the unknowing do not hurt themselves. 

Just my humble opinion on the matter.

You folks deffenently have a greater need for AC then I... 
Byways no Highways
2017 Tacoma
Truck Camper Build
2004 F150 My Overlander
Back to Top
offgrid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule

Not just any will work! As you now know. I have a eight capacitor bank on a low light solar system I'm testing. They have to be EE'd.. to fit the need. 

I don't have AC in my unit, so never went to the effort to work it out.

Yep, if you live in NC as StephenH and I do, a/c is a whole lot more important than it is in MN. LOL

I think we've probably run the easystart discussion to ground at this point, I for one am not taking mine apart. It does what its supposed to do, so I'm a happy camper. My cardinal rule is, if it ain't broke don't fix it!

OTOH, I'm really intrigued about the eight capacitor bank and the low light solar system. I'd love to hear more about that....


1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
Back to Top
Olddawgsrule View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Location: New Hampshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1014
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 6:43am
Originally posted by offgrid

Yep, if you live in NC as StephenH and I do, a/c is a whole lot more important than it is in MN. LOL

OTOH, I'm really intrigued about the eight capacitor bank and the low light solar system. I'd love to hear more about that...

Nor, in the Nor'East. We only require AC for a couple weeks a year. Typically we head for the mountains.

The low light solar was (and will be again) a experiment amongst a group of us attempting different ideas and approaches. One working films/coatings and getting interesting results, 3 of us working electronic's in different directions and 2 others as pure experimenters going where no one had before (or at least was our joke). The Group disbanded almost 4yrs back. One just dis-appeared (the AC guy I spoke of), 2 passed away the balance of us try to stay in contact and pass notes of ongoing projects. 
My bench test is built from a 15watt panel. I'll return again to this experiment at some point.

Currently I have a Sleeper Cap build I've almost completed for my pickup. Being I'm currently trailer-less.

 


   
Byways no Highways
2017 Tacoma
Truck Camper Build
2004 F150 My Overlander
Back to Top
offgrid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 7:56am
On the low light thing, there ain't no free lunch. 

Bottom line is that PV cell/module Isc varies linearly with irradiance (more photons= more current). As you can't extract any power at Isc, the only thing you can do is to get modules made with the best quality cells you can.  That way they have low shunt resistance and as high a fill factor as possible so that their Vmp and efficiency doesn't fall off dramatically at low light levels. High quality mono cells work best. 

Beyond that, knowing that Vmp will still be pretty low at low irradiance, you can use a MPPT to extract as much power as possible. That's the basic physics of PV devices, not something you can change, so I don't see what additional electronics can do for you. 

Since low light implies diffuse light, you can tune the glass ar coating to enhance light collection at high incidence angles. That's probably what your coatings guy was working on. There are also spectral differences under low light conditions, so in theory you could tune the cell ar coating to improve low light collection, but in practice you don't really want to hurt your direct high irradiance performance in the process because even in a cloudy place most energy collection comes on clear days as direct not diffuse. 

Are you putting solar on your sleeper cap? Looks like a nice flat surface up there for it. 


1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.64
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz