It should if done right and happy to hear it works for you. All they are is a capacitor bank allows the current to get stored first, then releasing to remove the surge from you generator. 

Correction: A Micro-Air Easy Start is more than "a capacitor bank." 

From the Micro-Air site:

"EasyStart™ - The most advanced & effective soft starter for all A/C applications
EasyStart™ is a one-of-a-kind, custom-developed soft starter for single-phase motors. It employs a 4-part start ramp sequence that is self-optimizing, resulting in the lowest possible start-up current. EasyStart can deliver 65-75% start current reduction as compared to a compressor's LRA (locked-rotor amperage). EasyStart is the perfect solution that allows an air conditioner or refrigeration compressor to operate on a generator, inverter, or limited utility power when it would otherwise not have functioned. It can also be applied to air compressor and fluid pump motors"

So, it is a soft starter, which is a far cry from a hard start capacitor. It has a learning capability to recognize the power source and adapt the start sequence. The Relearning EasyStart-364 instructions have a good picture of at least part of the inside of the unit. While there is a capacitor in there, there is also a circuit board to control the soft-start process.

See also the http://www.micro-air.com/knowledgebank/Home/Detail/what-does-easystarttm-do-and-how-does-it-work - FAQ on the MicroAir site.

OTOH, it is switching in start capacitors (I think in several stages) in order to achieve as soft a start as possible. So, in a way, both of you are right. 

Enough said..

You're on the right path.. It's all abut the right capacitors. The rest is marketing..

Going back to being silent..

OTOH, the right capacitor would delay the voltage curve relative to current curve (making an inductive load more resistive, or less reactive if you prefer). This would have the effect of making the voltage and current more in-phase with each other and thusly increasing the actual power to the compressor motor (which is a mostly inductive load).

I don't know which; someone with an easy start might be able to tell if it's more than just a capacitor in there.

The picture to which I referred in my post shows that there is a large capacitor and below that, a circuit board. How it works, I don't know. While it does decrease the starting surge current needed to start the compressor, it will not allow the AC to run if the generator is overloaded. IOW, I can run the AC and the converter IF the batteries are charged and all that is needed is  a float current. I can't run any of the other high-power-draw items at the same time either. My iX2000 will run the AC, and it does not bog down like it did before I installed the EasyStart. It does throttle up, but more gently than before. I'm not sure how else to describe it. I will say that the Micro-Air EasyStart is much more than marketing hype. The other alternative would have been to ditch the iX2000 and go for a Predator 3500 or equivalent.

If you can accomplish what MicroAir has done with just a start cap you should mount that in a black box and go into business (adding some marketing hype of your own of course. )

I didn't want to spend $300 hard earned dollars on what $10 worth of caps could do either, but in the research I did I didn't find any other product or DIY option that would consistently and reliably allow a 2kW genny to start a 13.5 kbtu/h a/c. And I didn't want to fool around on the roof of my trailer doing a bunch of trials in hopes of maybe finding a cheaper solution.The EasyStart does the startup job very well, plus a couple of other useful functions.  

Is it worth the $300? Sure, for those who need it. Its priced based on the functions it performs, not on the cost of its components. It addresses a small market segment which hasn't yet attracted cheap asian competition. I'm sure that will change given time. 

Of course, it doesn't create energy, so it won't allow you to run a 3kW load on a 2KW generator. You have to leave pretty much all your other AC loads off while the a/c is on. 

Overall, I would recommend the product, if you expect to boondock in places where you need a/c, don't want to lug a large generator, and (importantly) are allowed to run a genny during the hours you are trying to stay cool. This last one was the gotcha for me, the warm country campgrounds we go to all have quiet hours rules, so I've made only limited use of the genny running the a/c.   

I have used the generator a few times in the kind of situations you're describing, and a couple of times in dispersed camping areas without generator restrictions. but for the most part I've not been able to. The NPS and our non generator using fellow campers don't distinguish between a quiet and a noisy generator. So I'm looking at other solutions. 

That being said, is still like the EasyStart even when running the a/c hooked up at home because of the lighter startup load on my 15A circuit. 

Even with the EasyStart, my 15A circuit was not adequate due to other things being on that circuit. I finally installed a 30A RV outlet next to the outside breaker box and use a heavy-duty 30A extension cord to get power close enough to the RPod to plug in. It was less expensive to do it that way as the cost for electrical cable was rather steep and the cost would have been higher to put the RV outlet box near the RPod. If I had paid an electrician to do the job, it would have been in the neighborhood of $400+ to do the job.

I'm sure the Honda 2K is quieter than the Generac iX2000, especially in ECO mode. While the iX2000 is pretty quiet, it still is plenty loud, especially when under the load of the AC, but not nearly as loud as the a commercial generator would have been.

With all that being said, I would not mind it at all if I could find a suitcase solar panel setup at the right price. That would eliminate the generator noise, but there have been some places I have camped where sunlight was not that plentiful but rain was. Unfortunately, a small fuel cell power supply is not currently available AFAIK.

Edit:  I just came across this:  http://www.wattfuelcell.com/uses/rv/ - Watt Fuel Cell

No mention of price or availabilility though.

Apparently Watt shipped some of these to Erwin Hymer (aka Roadtrek) about a year ago. Looks like Erwin Hymer has gone bankrupt since and there aren't any recent announcements from Watt so I wouldn't expect much anytime soon. There are a couple of asian sources for portable fuel cells but they apparently use a special expensive methanol fuel rather than commercial propane, so they're not very practical at this point. 

Sorry, I should have said 20A home circuit, not 15A. 20A does OK running the trailer as long as I don't run other things at the same time. 

I realize that the AC would be nearly impossible to run on either solar or fuel cell at this point. There isn't enough room on the R-Pod to mount sufficient solar panels and a fuel cell large enough to run the AC would likely take up half the available space in the RPod. I saw that about Roadtrek and I saw information about the methanol fueled one.

The only outdoor outlets I had before installing my 30A RV outlet were wired into a 15A breaker (why? I don't know). 20A would have made more sense.

I think I can get about 1kw of solar on the 179 if I remove the roof a/c. That would give about 4 kWh/day average in NC in the summer which would just about run a high efficiency a/c (not our roof a/c's) overnight. Daytime use would require additional TV or genny charging. But running a generator or TV in the daytime isn't restricted, its the night time that's the problem.  

Actually I was thinking of putting it on my backup window a/c which I installed in the bedroom for when our power is out after the hurricanes. The window unit startup surge sometimes trips the Honda when the fridge is on at the same time. 

If however you wanna take a nice camping trip to the OBX and take both the roof air and easystart off my hands i would make you a good deal on the combo . Weather is great this time of year (between hurricanes anyhow) 

A friend from 5 years back on a alternative energy site developed a 12v AC system for his sailboat he was living on and traveling in. Even on his system the issue was startup draw. That's where the start capacitors came into play.

He's been unreachable for years, basically meaning what he developed worked and is marketable. Last I heard from him was 4 years back and he was living on a yacht in the South China Sea enjoying life. 

Is there more to the Easy-Start then meets the eye? Of course there is. It has to pass government regulations of safety. Is it more than just a start capacitor? Ya, but not much. 

If I had a AC unit, I'd look into this more before I spent $300.. 

If I wanted AC, I'd dig a bit deeper into smaller DC units that work efficiently for freezers or refrigerators and work upward from there.

  

I am enjoying the conversation here!

If even one RV burns to the ground...and one investigator sees the crispy easy start innards with a blown capacitor....or one 98 year old guy falls off the RV roof and hires a new and hungry lawyer while still in the hospital bed, then poof!

Instant lawsuit.

A 12V system would be running with a 12V DC motor. A start capacitor would work great there, as you could use the capacitor to fill in during the surge at the start. 

Not the same as a 120VAC motor, as the alternating current makes it a bit more complicated.

Re DC a/c's, that has been done many times. I did a 3 ton solar powered 120Vdc icemaking system out in the desert in Egypt. That was back in the early 90's, when inverters were expensive, inefficient, and unreliable.  And conventional a/c's were inefficient. Those days are in the past, I wouldn't design that system the same way now. Now you can get cheap, high efficiency, reliable inverters that allow you to run the new ultra high efficiency a/c of your choice. 

And if I was going to do a dc a/c of any reasonable capacity it wouldn't be at 12V. The resistive losses will kill you. Even a 12KBTU/hr high efficiency a/c will draw about 800W/67A (our crummy a/c's use about 2kW). 67A at 12V over a 20ft conductor run requires 1/0 copper conductor to keep the losses below 3%. 

Start surge capacity shouldn't be a problem with dc battery based systems, batteries aren't current limited like gensets are. The problem will come if the compressor uses a permanent magnet dc motor because the high start currents can demagnetize it. That can be solved with current limiting starting resistors that get switched out after the compressor is up and running. or just use a wound stator dc motor. 

https://sunshineworks.com/pages/solar-air-conditioner-48-volt-dc-variable-refrigerant-flow-12-000-btu-heat-pump - https://sunshineworks.com/pages/solar-air-conditioner-48-volt-dc-variable-refrigerant-flow-12-000-btu-heat-pump

https://hotspotenergy.com/DC-air-conditioner/ - https://hotspotenergy.com/DC-air-conditioner/

https://www.dcairco.com/product/mining-airconditioning/dc-9300-24v-48v-400v-ac-dc-split-air-conditioner - https://www.dcairco.com/product/mining-airconditioning/dc-9300-24v-48v-400v-ac-dc-split-air-conditioner

So the Hot Spot a/c has a modified inverter to take dc rather than ac into its AC motor drive, or both for its 12KBTU unit. That one is interesting as it is advertised to be able to run in hybrid mode using solar and 220Vac in parallel. Could be a good way to go for a a grid tied home system where you have 220Vac continuously available and want to mostly use solar for daytime a/c operation, without needing a battery pack. 

They also have a 48Vdc input unit for straight off grid operation which would be more appropriate for boon dock RV'ing. The problem with this is that you're working with a very small company and paying a high price for a customized a/c unit. For my rPod project, I think I'm better off with a conventional inverter and OTS high efficiency mini split from a major company like Mitsubishi or Panasonic. The mini spit price difference will more than pay for the inverter, I can use the inverter to run the microwave and any other AC loads, and I can select an inverter that will run at the battery voltage I want for a Li pack, in my case 24Vdc. 

Haven't seeing the dc airco product but it looks to be a similar configuration. They are targeting industrial and military mobile markets so they ain't exactly gonna be cheap...

Greetings:

I have installed a 30 amp receptacle both at my home and at the family lake cottage.  I used 10 gauge wire for both with a 30 amp breakers.  I dry camp usually in the fall and use my Honda 2000.  I seldom have much need to run the air.  I don't like all the noise that it makes. Of course I live in MN.  We had only a few 90 degree days this summer.  If I were to replace my Honda, I would most likely buy a Champion 3000 watt inverter.  I'm not a fan of solar.  

Crankster78  R 179  2015

I tried a hard-start capacitor and sure enough, it made the AC hard to start. Without, the iX2000 would start the AC. With the HS, it immediately put the generator in overload. The HS capacitor got removed and returned ASAP.

I installed the EasyStart. What a difference! The AC does not have that same jolt of the compressor when it starts. It is much smoother. Admittedly, it is somewhat subjective as I have no hard data, just what my ear hears.

Not just any will work! As you now know. I have a eight capacitor bank on a low light solar system I'm testing. They have to be EE'd.. to fit the need. 

I don't have AC in my unit, so never went to the effort to work it out.

It would be interesting if someone that has a Easy-Start, that is beyond warranty, to open it up and see what capacitors are actually in there.

Think about this folks. In order for a developer of a product he wants at least 150% of his costs (ideally 200%) for the product to be viable to produce. Then comes marketing and outlets (re-sellers) to get said product out to the masses (us). The reseller to handle and promote wants 150% of his costs.

With some give and take, and of course now for them mass buying power. That puts the unit somewhere in the area of $100- 150 for us to copy. If so learned as to how. Is all the other electronic's required. Not in my mind... Bells and whistles for regulations so the unknowing do not hurt themselves. 

Just my humble opinion on the matter.

You folks deffenently have a greater need for AC then I... 

Yep, if you live in NC as StephenH and I do, a/c is a whole lot more important than it is in MN. 

I think we've probably run the easystart discussion to ground at this point, I for one am not taking mine apart. It does what its supposed to do, so I'm a happy camper. My cardinal rule is, if it ain't broke don't fix it!

OTOH, I'm really intrigued about the eight capacitor bank and the low light solar system. I'd love to hear more about that....

Nor, in the Nor'East. We only require AC for a couple weeks a year. Typically we head for the mountains.

The low light solar was (and will be again) a experiment amongst a group of us attempting different ideas and approaches. One working films/coatings and getting interesting results, 3 of us working electronic's in different directions and 2 others as pure experimenters going where no one had before (or at least was our joke). The Group disbanded almost 4yrs back. One just dis-appeared (the AC guy I spoke of), 2 passed away the balance of us try to stay in contact and pass notes of ongoing projects. 

My bench test is built from a 15watt panel. I'll return again to this experiment at some point.

Currently I have a Sleeper Cap build I've almost completed for my pickup. Being I'm currently trailer-less.

 . 

   

Bottom line is that PV cell/module Isc varies linearly with irradiance (more photons= more current). As you can't extract any power at Isc, the only thing you can do is to get modules made with the best quality cells you can.  That way they have low shunt resistance and as high a fill factor as possible so that their Vmp and efficiency doesn't fall off dramatically at low light levels. High quality mono cells work best. 

Beyond that, knowing that Vmp will still be pretty low at low irradiance, you can use a MPPT to extract as much power as possible. That's the basic physics of PV devices, not something you can change, so I don't see what additional electronics can do for you. 

Are you putting solar on your sleeper cap? Looks like a nice flat surface up there for it. 

That green color reminds me of a pickup camper that my dad built many years ago. It was a bit larger IIRC, with a bed above the cab. Later, they sold that and bought a commercial one that was even larger. I probably have pictures of it somewhere. What you built looks pretty good. It will be interesting to see a picture of it when it is finished.

Edit:  Nice web site.

Our earliest panels were from a company called SunWize. Where we are on the west coast, and close to it, we get a lot of days with diffuse light because of the frequent fog/marine layer. Those panels and the PWM controllers we used at that time just did not deal well with those conditions, and we often had to compensate for that frequent fog.

Later on, we switched to some Trina panels (yes, Chinese made) and (still PWM) controllers. Wow, those panels really worked well, even in the fog. We even set the panels for a fairly high angle ~~ 50 degree tilt. Even though summer sun was off-angle, and often in the fog, those suckers just cranked electrons. In the winter, when the fog is not as persistent, they worked even better.

Still later on, we switched to MPPT controllers, and things got even better. The MPPT controllers allowed us to string together several panels and increase the overall voltage. So even if the panels were only producing 25 or 30 percent of rated, the MPPT controllers allowed us to extract what was available. With the PWM controllers, the panels had to be at around 75-80 percent before we could extract anything.

Thank you and thank you! The purpose of this build was two fold. I want a over-night style camper I don't have to tow and I wanted to learn this foam built system. 

My build thread is here:  http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=71879 - http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=71879

It been a great learning process and I like the system. Several things I would do different, LOL, learning curve thing!

Frequency/back feed recovery sounds a bit like perpetual motion to me. PV cells are just big ol' diodes, ie, they are dc devices. They work best if you keep them at a stable operating point on their IV curve and you can't get more energy out of them by dithering with that once you find it for a given set of conditions, which is what the MPPT does.  In fact fiddling with that operating point will inevitably reduce performance. And if you back feed a solar module it absorbs energy.  We actually made roof solar arrays that doubled as a snow melt system by back feeding them at one point. Dumb, yes i know, but the customers wanted it. 

Once you get your trailer back the top of the cap might be a good place for a big PV module, looks like you have a larger available surface area there than on the trailer roof.  Add an MPPT and long cable and you could park the truck in the sun while the trailer stayed in the shade. Just a thought....

Frequency/back feed recovery sounds a bit like perpetual motion to me. PV cells are just big ol' diodes, ie, they are dc devices. They work best if you keep them at a stable operating point on their IV curve and you can't get more energy out of them by dithering with that once you find it for a given set of conditions, which is what the MPPT does.  In fact fiddling with that operating point will inevitably reduce performance. And if you back feed a solar module it absorbs energy.  We actually made roof solar arrays that doubled as a snow melt system by back feeding them at one point. Dumb, yes i know, but the customers wanted it. 

Once you get your trailer back the top of the cap might be a good place for a big PV module, looks like you have a larger available surface area there than on the trailer roof.  Add an MPPT and long cable and you could park the truck in the sun while the trailer stayed in the shade. Just a thought....

The Frequency/back feed wasn't to the panels. I agree, that doesn't work. That's were the electronic's to the battery came in. Like a MPPT on steroids or so was the concept. 

The concept came from the Open coil/transistor build they did. That started as a better charging system yet turned into a great battery maintainer. Many of the same principles are in the better commercial battery maintainers you can buy off the shelf now. Theirs was built to maintain a larger battery bank (mainly LA's). 

Ok, so some form of pulse or variable charge rate battery charging. I'm not going to debate that one, there are all sorts of opinions out there about how best to and not to charge a PBA battery. But that's not really about maximizing PV ouput at low light levels. For that ar coatings are probably the most practical approach. Many if not most module manufacturers use ARC glass already. 

The easystart does a great job helping in starting the a/c. compressor. It will not help run the a/c compressor at all once its started, the genny has to be able to do that on its own.  If your genny can already start the a/c compressor but can't run it once started and you're expecting the easystart to help run it then you will be disappointed. Just want to be sure we're clear on the difference. 

The easystart instructions are good and if you have any questions they are pretty responsive. The hardest part is that you are on the roof doing this. Lay a piece of plywood up there so you don't damage the rpod roof and be sure to have a stable ladder. 

Thanks for the clear explanation. That is what I thought was happening but its good to be sure. The problem is that once the condenser and evaporator sides of the a/c build up a temp differential from running they also build up a refrigerant pressure differential. Then the compressor has to overcome that pressure differential to start the second (and following) times.

The easystart will solve that problem for you, I'm sure. It brings the starting current load on the compressor way down. 

Before you install the easystart one question though. Have you tried taking that generator out of "efficiency mode" and seeing if it will start the compressor that way? As you say its crazy that a genny that size won't start a 13000 btu a/c. Maybe the designers have gone overboard trying to save fuel by idling the generator too low in efficiency mode so it doesn't have enough energy stored in its rotating mass to get through a/c startup. Try it and see if you haven't, that might solve your problem without needing the easystart. 

Well I guess we have to chalk this one up to brand rental then. Westinghouse was once long ago a company and brand with a great reputation, but that company no longer exists.  Now there is am entity called Westinghouse Licensing that grants rights to use that brand to all sorts of companies for all kinds of products of varying quality and performance levels. Oh well....

Modern inverter based variable speed compressor systems have very low startup current requirements. So new high SEER mini splits and central air conditioners do this already. What we need is for the RV a/c manufacturers to get out of the stone age and implement some modern high efficiency technology. Their stuff is still pretty much 1960's tech. 

Its not like the new systems are more expensive either, you can buy a 12kbtu/hr high efficiency minisplit for less than a Dometic Penguin. The RV a/c market is ripe for the entry of some disruptive technology I think. 

It is high time for modern technology to be incorporated. The issue is to make it durable enough to survive bouncing around. Most mini-splits are not going to be involved in a rolling earthquake.