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Topic ClosedMicro-Air easy start

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podwerkz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Micro-Air easy start
    Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 8:46pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 7:21pm
As far as i was able to determine, many folks have tried start cap configurations with their 13.5 kBTU/Hr a/c's on 2KW gennies and not been able to make them work reliably. So, we can endlessly debate whether the easystart is worth the money or not, but if you need that specific functionality there really isn't any alternative you can count on. 

Re DC a/c's, that has been done many times. I did a 3 ton solar powered 120Vdc icemaking system out in the desert in Egypt. That was back in the early 90's, when inverters were expensive, inefficient, and unreliable.  And conventional a/c's were inefficient. Those days are in the past, I wouldn't design that system the same way now. Now you can get cheap, high efficiency, reliable inverters that allow you to run the new ultra high efficiency a/c of your choice. 

And if I was going to do a dc a/c of any reasonable capacity it wouldn't be at 12V. The resistive losses will kill you. Even a 12KBTU/hr high efficiency a/c will draw about 800W/67A (our crummy a/c's use about 2kW). 67A at 12V over a 20ft conductor run requires 1/0 copper conductor to keep the losses below 3%. 

Start surge capacity shouldn't be a problem with dc battery based systems, batteries aren't current limited like gensets are. The problem will come if the compressor uses a permanent magnet dc motor because the high start currents can demagnetize it. That can be solved with current limiting starting resistors that get switched out after the compressor is up and running. or just use a wound stator dc motor. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule

Breaking my silence.. for the moment..

A friend from 5 years back on a alternative energy site developed a 12v AC system for his sailboat he was living on and traveling in. Even on his system the issue was startup draw. That's where the start capacitors came into play.

He's been unreachable for years, basically meaning what he developed worked and is marketable. Last I heard from him was 4 years back and he was living on a yacht in the South China Sea enjoying life. 

Is there more to the Easy-Start then meets the eye? Of course there is. It has to pass government regulations of safety. Is it more than just a start capacitor? Ya, but not much. 

If I had a AC unit, I'd look into this more before I spent $300.. 

If I wanted AC, I'd dig a bit deeper into smaller DC units that work efficiently for freezers or refrigerators and work upward from there.

A 12V system would be running with a 12V DC motor. A start capacitor would work great there, as you could use the capacitor to fill in during the surge at the start. 

Not the same as a 120VAC motor, as the alternating current makes it a bit more complicated.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 4:37pm
Product liability is part of the cost. There is a potential in any product like this for something bad to happen...either installation mistakes, wiring errors, falling off a ladder when trying to do the installation, or simply a failed component.  

If even one RV burns to the ground...and one investigator sees the crispy easy start innards with a blown capacitor....or one 98 year old guy falls off the RV roof and hires a new and hungry lawyer while still in the hospital bed, then poof!

Instant lawsuit.

The lawyer's boats and pools and alimony payments, and the liability insurance company skyscrapers have to be paid for somehow....so that cost is added in to the price of the unit.

Whether that is $1 per unit or $100 per unit..is anyone's guess.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 3:39pm
Breaking my silence.. for the moment..

A friend from 5 years back on a alternative energy site developed a 12v AC system for his sailboat he was living on and traveling in. Even on his system the issue was startup draw. That's where the start capacitors came into play.

He's been unreachable for years, basically meaning what he developed worked and is marketable. Last I heard from him was 4 years back and he was living on a yacht in the South China Sea enjoying life. 

Is there more to the Easy-Start then meets the eye? Of course there is. It has to pass government regulations of safety. Is it more than just a start capacitor? Ya, but not much. 

If I had a AC unit, I'd look into this more before I spent $300.. 

If I wanted AC, I'd dig a bit deeper into smaller DC units that work efficiently for freezers or refrigerators and work upward from there.
  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 2:14pm
He he, good try.Tongue

Actually I was thinking of putting it on my backup window a/c which I installed in the bedroom for when our power is out after the hurricanes. The window unit startup surge sometimes trips the Honda when the fridge is on at the same time. 

If however you wanna take a nice camping trip to the OBX and take both the roof air and easystart off my hands i would make you a good deal on the combo Big smile. Weather is great this time of year (between hurricanes anyhow) 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 1:31pm
You wanna sell that easy-start cheap so you can begin your solar powered A/C project? You wont be needing it after you toss the roof air unit....

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 1:11pm
They were probably only run with 14 gauge wire because its cheaper, if they are 12 gauge you could replace the outlets with 20A ones and swap out the breaker. 

I think I can get about 1kw of solar on the 179 if I remove the roof a/c. That would give about 4 kWh/day average in NC in the summer which would just about run a high efficiency a/c (not our roof a/c's) overnight. Daytime use would require additional TV or genny charging. But running a generator or TV in the daytime isn't restricted, its the night time that's the problem.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 12:46pm
I realize that the AC would be nearly impossible to run on either solar or fuel cell at this point. There isn't enough room on the R-Pod to mount sufficient solar panels and a fuel cell large enough to run the AC would likely take up half the available space in the RPod. I saw that about Roadtrek and I saw information about the methanol fueled one.

The only outdoor outlets I had before installing my 30A RV outlet were wired into a 15A breaker (why? I don't know). 20A would have made more sense.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 10:06am
Neither a portable solar module nor a small fuel cell are going to run your a/c.  Best shot is a high efficiency a/c run from Li batteries. Even then you'll need 5 plus kWh per day for a few hour's operation. But you can get that from either a large rooftop solar array or a genny or alternator charging during the day, or a combination.

Apparently Watt shipped some of these to Erwin Hymer (aka Roadtrek) about a year ago. Looks like Erwin Hymer has gone bankrupt since and there aren't any recent announcements from Watt so I wouldn't expect much anytime soon. There are a couple of asian sources for portable fuel cells but they apparently use a special expensive methanol fuel rather than commercial propane, so they're not very practical at this point. 

Sorry, I should have said 20A home circuit, not 15A. 20A does OK running the trailer as long as I don't run other things at the same time. 
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