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Topic ClosedConcept for cold weather use of rPod water systems

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voisj View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Concept for cold weather use of rPod water systems
    Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 8:05pm
I remember one time somebody just put a skirt around the bottom of the trailer and put a little buddy in there on low. Seems like an elegant simple solution.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 8:41pm
One other question.  If I just use one thermostat to control the solenoid and keep the hot water at the130 deg, wont I have to open the valve on the cold supply to keep from getting scalded?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 5:10am
Skirting and heating is not a good solution unless you're parking the trailer for a long period. If you're on the road in cold weather or camping for a couple of days between moves its not going to be very practical. The recirc system is going to cost all of about $50 to do at most so its really going to be cost effective if it works well.  But to each their own. 

texman, you have the operating theory correct, Just one clarification,  the thermostat on the water heater operates independently of the one on the recirc system. The water heater will turn on when its thermostat calls for heat, which might or might not be when the recirc system is operating. 

The purpose for adding the new thermostat on the water heater is only to be able to set the water temp lower than the 130 deg non adjustable setting of the standard thermostat. By setting the temp down around 102-110 degrees (whatever feels comfortable to you) you don't ever get scalded, you don't need to fiddle with adjusting the water temp, and you waste less water. So, you won't need to change the recirc system back to its normal hot and cold setup in order to use the water in the winter. 

In my case, when I do the recirc mod I don't think I'll ever change it back to allow separate hot and cold line function, even in summer. As I don't drink or rinse food with the trailer tap water (I don't trust the water in the tank so I use bottled water for those purposes and for brushing my teeth),  I really have no need for the cold water function. 

I think you shouldn't need to set the recirc thermostat setpoint anywhere near as high as 60 degrees. If its temp sensor is located at the coldest low point of the system its probably OK to set it more like 35-40 degrees. Some testing will probably be required to dial that in. The temp sensors on the little thermostat boards are thermistors so if the wires to them are too short you can cut them and splice in longer wires without causing a problem.  The boards are supposed to have a temp calibration adjustment but the one I bought didn't, so I had to use a separate thermometer to set up mine the first time. Just immerse both the temp probe and a known good thermometer in a glass of water and record the temp difference for later use. 

Re your earlier question about whether the water recirc freeze protection will work for the risers up to the trailer appliances from the water lines in the floor, I would assume that it doesn't until proven otherwise. So, there should be a way for maintaining the interior of the trailer above freezing at all times unless you winterize. I'd also leave the cabinet doors open a bit under the sink and by the new cutoffs you would install for the outside shower. 

That being said, since those appliance lines are risers, it is very likely that the water in them will warm somewhat just from natural convection from the heated lines in the floor. You'd have to experiment a bit and maybe take some temp measurements to determine how warm the interior of the trailer needs to be to keep them from freezing. It might be a pretty low temp.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 7:22pm
I'm wondering if the circulation pump would work for the 176 model.  The shower and toilet is on the opposite side of the trailer as the water pump and sink, so I'm not sure the water would circulate to that side which is where we're getting the freezing problem?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 5:54am
I’m not familiar with the 176 plumbing routing. I’d guess either there is a single branch for hot and cold that loops around the floor of the trailer or there are 2 branches. You’d have to trace it out to be sure. If there are 2 branches you’ll probably see tees for them in the pump/water heater area.

If you have a single branch then one new valve connecting the ends of the hot and cold lines of that branch would be required. If 2 branches then you’d need 2 valves, one at the end of each branch. Either way the concept should work, its the same approach that is used for those instant hot water systems you can buy for your house.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 8:25am
i ordered a solenoid and 2 thermostats.  They should be here Friday. Looks like i will be working with 1/2" pex lines, and 1/2" ID vinyl tubing at the freshwater supply and pump connections.  Is that the correct sizes of the lines for fittings and valves?  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 11:48am
Yep, half inch pex. Not sure why they used that hose instead of pex for the pump suction line, maybe they saved 2 cents. I think that solenoid was 1/4 inch npt, not sure. You’ll need fitting for that. Keep us posted!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 11:33am
i am thinking of getting this valve instead of the solenoid.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06WWPZWGZ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A20QEF2LEKCK8G&psc=1
Reasons: 
1. I am having trouble finding 1/4" npt to 1/2" pex, so 1/2" npt valve is easier to source parts to tap into my 1/2" pex.  i was planning to use shark bit pex fittings since i dont have the clamp tool. 1/2 pex to 1/2" npt is readily available at lowes.

2. This is motorized ball valve instead of a solenoid with auto return to close when no power.  So it should work with the thermostats that i have, i think.  So it will still use some power while open (30ma) since it is auto return, but much less than a solenoid (1.25A if my math is correct in converting 15va at 12v.) and shouldn't have the heating problem that a solenoid can have.

please let me know if you think this will work.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 11:43am
TexMan, I can’t see any reason that this valve shouldn’t work, and as you say the energy efficiency is better. Great find!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 3:11pm
Tex, there are two types of pex tools, the compression one that uses the bronze rings, and the crimp type that uses the SS rings. The pex ring compression tool is very handy so you might want to bite the bullet and have one around. However, be aware that in real small confined areas like a camper it can be impossible to use. I have not used the crimp style and have no idea if it is better in small places. 
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