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Topic ClosedConcept for cold weather use of rPod water systems

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lostagain View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 Sep 2016
Location: Quaker Hill, CT
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Concept for cold weather use of rPod water systems
    Posted: 28 Sep 2018 at 10:23am
Seems to me that it might be easier to buy a 4 season trailer.  Unless you do all the work yourself, the labor alone would exceed the value of the Pod.  And there is a lot of stuff that could fail leading to something freezing, and you wouldn't necessarily know until it was too late.  

Personally, I think we have to recognize the limitations of a 3 season light weight trailer and just enjoy what we have.  The anti freezing suggestions of offgrid are really cool and, provided nothing fails, would probably keep the water and drain system from freezing, but it doesn't eliminate the fact that the R value of the walls is a smidge over 5 and that's not very much to retain heat.  And, for the areas that have the heater, water heater, and refrigerator, the R value is <1; just little metal doors, open vents, and 1/8" plywood on the inside of the trailer.  That's a lot of heat loss potential.  

I don't mean to be a contrary one [well actually I do as I'm just a grumpy old man], but trying to turn an r-Pod into something it isn't, is just a hole in an RV park into which you throw money.  Every time you beef up some element, all you do is transfer the weak link in system to another component.  If you put a 6,000 axle under the frame, you still have a frame designed for loads in the range of the GVW.  You're just moving the weak link in the chain to another spot.  ....And, we haven't even talked about driving in the snow and ice with a trailer.  
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CharlieM View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2018 at 8:56am
I made similar mods to my Camplite 21RBS. I utilized the onboard WH and the existing onboard pump with a timer to circulate HW throughout the piping system.All exposed supply piping was first insulated. Careful examination of the existing plumbing reveled the exposed hot and cold pipe runs were adjacent such that I could wrap most runs in a common insulation. This allowed the circulating hot water to heat the cold water pipes as well. A timer controlled solenoid valve took HW from the furthest fixture, the kitchen, and dumped it back into the FW tank, thus heating the FW tank. I didn't treat the waste tanks since they are more easily handled with antifreeze. The attached links may give you some ideas for you project. Your concept of circulating HW from the existing WH is sound and an excellent starting point. PM me if you need more details.


Charlie
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OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2018 at 7:28am
All, I'm developing a plan for normal use of the cold water systems in my 179 during freezing conditions. 

Yes I know that you can dry camp and/or use RV antifreeze to mitigate freezing issues, but that is not the objective here. And I'm not trying to create something that would work at sub zero F temps, my target would be around 10-15 F/-10 C. It never gets colder than that where I live or would plan to camp. I just wanted to get some thoughts on my concept prior to proceeding, in case I'm missing something, so if you're willing to take the time to read through what follows I'd appreciate it. 

Obviously, a heating system would be needed for the fresh, black, and gray tanks and their drain lines. And also, it would be necessary to maintain the temp above freezing in the rPod interior as well. That's easy, there is a furnace for that purpose when off grid and a cube heater can be used when plugged in.

The typical way to heat the tanks in the RV industry is to either enclose and insulate the bottom of the RV and blow warm air through it to maintain tank temperature, and/or to use heating pads for the tanks and drains. I don't want to do either of these things for two reasons. First, electric elements are out for me because I rarely if ever camp with hookups and electric heating uses far too much energy for off grid use.  Second, I think it would be very difficult to create an enclosed insulated space under a pod that was both sealed against external air leaks and would also have enough space around the tanks for warm air circulation. 

So, I want to instead heat with hot water from the water heater. The heat source can then be propane while off grid and electric when plugged in at home, as that is already in place. My plan is to install a small 12Vdc circulator pump between the hot and cold water lines, as is done all the time for instant hot water systems. The circ pump would provide a small pressure differential on thermostat demand to heat the tanks via the hot water lines, with return via the cold lines. As a bonus, the pressure water lines would also stay warm just as they do in a home instant hot water heating system.

To transfer heat to the tanks and drain lines I would run probably a 3/8 copper line inside each drain line from directly behind the dump valves up to the elbows where the drains enter the tanks. That would provide for direct heat exchange to the water in the drain lines which would in turn circulate by natural convection (thermosiphon) to the tanks. I would change out the 1 1/2 in gray tank dump line for a 3 inch one while I was doing this both because the small pipe is I think too small to support a good thermosiphon loop and just to have the two heat exchangers be identical. Besides, that line drains too slow now anyway.  I would just make up two new complete drain assemblies so I wasn't fussing around with stinky old drain lines. The copper lines would be placed against the upper inside surface of the drain lines both to enhance the thermosiphon action and to not interfere with solids drainage. FR conveniently provides low point hot and cold winterizing drain lines adjacent to the two tanks to connect the copper lines to using pex. 

The fresh water tank would need to be done differently both because the pump feed line needs to be protected and because there is no large opening to connect a thermosiphon to the bottom of the tank with, so for that tank I would use a thermostatically controlled 12V solenoid valve and simply feed hot water into the tank drain line when the tstat called for heat. Very little hot water would be needed for this, and the feed line to the pump would get warmed simultaneously whenever the solenoid valve was open to replace the water entering the bottom of the tank. 

Of course, I would still have to insulate the bottom of the pod and the drain lines to reduce thermal losses but I could just use a closed cell foam spray kit for this as I'm not trying to make an air chamber.  I would also install cutoff valves for the outdoor shower to winterize that, I don't see taking outside showers when its freezing out Thumbs Down

The spray foam kit would be most of the cost for this mod because all the other parts are simple plumbing parts and a low cost water circ pump and solenoid valve. The little 12V digital thermostats (I would need 3) are about $10 each on Amazon. I think the whole thing could be done for probably less than $500 and would greatly expand the utilization of the rPod. 

If you got this far thanks for taking the time and I'd appreciate any constructive feedback. 


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