Concept for cold weather use of rPod water systems |
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288 |
Topic: Concept for cold weather use of rPod water systems Posted: 29 Apr 2020 at 10:15am |
Thanks. That is helpful.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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texman
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jul 2014 Location: TeXas Online Status: Offline Posts: 446 |
Posted: 29 Apr 2020 at 9:59am |
two valves. one at water heater and one at the rear kitchen to allow a complete mix of hot/cold. so far the motorized valves are great. i like them better because they only power when switching and minimal power use to stay open and none when closed. so in my 182g, the cold line from main to sink and main to shower would get minimal recirculation, but are enclosed and in heated spaces. i figured the rear kitchen water supply was vulnerable to freezing since it is not in a heated part of trailer and adjacent to a semi exterior wall. from Feb 6th 2019 post the valve for recirculating hot water using the on board water pump
is pictured. The top valve is a normal closed valve that will be
linked to an identical valve (not shown) at the rear of the pod at the
rear kitchen. these two valves are controlled via a thermostat to open
when temps are near freezing and remain closed when temps are not close
to freezing. the valves draw 30ma each to remain open, so they low
energy and should be suitable for boondocking in colder weather. The
valve at the rear will be the mixing valve for the hot water to return
via the cold water lines and dump into the fresh water tank via the
overflow line when both valves are open and the third valve is closed
(the valve at the bottom of the pic.). The valve at the
bottom is a two wire reverse polarity ball valve that will be controlled
by a DPDT switch mounted with the rest of the pod switches by the
stereo panel. This valve controls whether the fresh water flows
normally (as in warm weather with cold/hot mixing at the point of use)
or stops the cold water and then the other thermostatically controlled
switches react to the temperature to open and close to circulate water
to prevent freezing. This valve only uses power when opening or
closing. Once it reaches each state, it uses no power. the idea is to
automate the cold weather function as best i can and be able to return
to the normal configuration with ease. Some of the valves are not easy
to get to. And, i still like the idea of having separate cold and hot
water available when needed. I used pex fittings which
are easy, but are not cheap. They are nice in the tight settings that
this has to be placed since they are simply push to connect. more pics
to come. |
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288 |
Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 7:12pm |
How many valves did you install? Did you do a valve by the kitchen sink and another by the shower since (at least on the 179) one valve would not be able to serve both areas. Have the motorized valves worked out better than solenoid valves would have? Are they reliable?
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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texman
Senior Member Joined: 24 Jul 2014 Location: TeXas Online Status: Offline Posts: 446 |
Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 6:49pm |
Holler if you have questions. I completed the recirc mod a while back.
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 2:49pm |
The W1209 thermostats only cost a few $. They're really pretty nice, versatile, easy to set up and have a nice little display. You can calibrate the temp probe in an ice bath and adjust for any errors using a setpoint. You can power everything up using the 12V switched supply at the water heater. The probe should be long enough to reach from there to the base of the pump supply line which is going to be place that will freeze first. You can put your manual switch on the wall next to the outlet by the furnace if you don't want to fish another set of wires all the way back to where the other switches are.
Or, get one of these instead of a manual on/off switch. Just push the button once and forget. Not sure if 10 seconds is enough or not, might need a different potentiometer. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288 |
Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 12:59pm |
Thanks for the clarification and the link. I see what you mean. That is why I said I was thinking of a timer that would cycle it periodically if it is cold but use a manual switch if I just want to pre-heat the water in the lines for dishes or a shower. However, a thermostat teamed with a manual switch is probably better since it then would not run if it were not needed.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 12:14pm |
Sorry I meant this one. Since the pex lines are 1/2 inch I think a ball valve that size should be fine and easiest to connect to.
Up to you but I wouldn't want to get up all night long to turn the valve on and off manually. And running it continuously would waste a ton of propane and electricity. Here's a rough schematic of what I had in mind to do. The manual switch and tstat spst relay contacts are in parallel so either will turn on the spdt relay coil, the contacts of which then send 12V to the "open" wire of the valve. A spdt relay is needed because you have to power on the valve both open and closed. Once its in a position it stays there and doesn't draw any power, so you can leave 12V on the "closed" wire of the valve when the manual switch and the tstat are off. Hope that makes sense. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288 |
Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 10:58am |
1" seems a bit large. What about 3/4" stainless steel? Also, the link was for a 2-wire auto-return valve. I was not thinking of running it with a thermostat, but either manually or with a timer. The primary use will be the instant hot water. I don't recall the issues Texman had. I'll have to look for that post. |
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 10:45am |
I think it ought to work OK. The pump will work a little harder that it would with a larger valve. You could also get one of these:
which is cheaper, the right size and is a 3 wire device, and run it from the little W1209 thermostat card via a spdt (single pole double throw) relay, like this: It would have the added advantage of better isolation of the W1208 thermostat. IIRC, Texman had a noise issue with a couple of the ones he got originally and had to get a second set. His second set were the same as the ones I got for my water heater temp adjustment which worked OK.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288 |
Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 10:16am |
I am thinking of doing this modification, mostly to reduce water use by pre-heating the water going to the kitchen sink and the shower. The valve in the link is brass, and the listing states that it is not for use with drinking water due to lead content. I have been looking at a stainless steel version, but can't find it in a 1/2" model. I did find this 1/4" model: With a couple of adapters, would this work? I would think that a small water flow through a 1/4" valve would be adequate for the tasks of making sure hot water is available immediately as well as to help with freeze prevention in overnight breeze situations. Given the smaller diameter, it also should be less likely to be too much for the overflow pipe to handle on the return side. What do you think?
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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