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Topic ClosedCosts of Alternatives for Running Fridge

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Costs of Alternatives for Running Fridge
    Posted: 07 Sep 2018 at 3:30pm
Propane was $3.99 a gallon the last time I filled up in the Dallas area (last Saturday). Nevada is probably not a good barometer because they are a sparsely populated state that gets a lot of income from gambling and hotel taxes. I doubt that they have the high fuel taxes that some other states have.
Alan
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2018 at 2:29pm
offgrid, what a great analysis.  It really is informative and helps understand the real costs.

There is one question I have, the price of propane seems a little high - at least in rural northern NV.  Seems like last time I bought it the price was about $2.25 a gallon or something around there.  That puts the cost on par with shore power more or less.

And, a comment:  You left off my wind turbine idea.  I know it's new and novel, but, but, 

And, why doesn't someone invent a cold fusion generator or a perpetual motion machine that defies the first law of thermodynamics.  After all laws are there to be broken.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2018 at 8:59am
I wouldn't suggest adding to your solar and battery system just to run your fridge, at least not from a cost standpoint. With solar and batteries you are still paying for your electricity, just doing it up front, I'm certain propane would be cheaper than that, especially considering battery replacement costs over time..

Especially if you're getting your propane that cheap, I just got my big residential tank filled and it was over $3 a gallon. 

I beg to differ on the "free alternator electrons theory". That would be a violation of conservation of energy, and unless your TV runs on nuclear power that isn't going to happen. The alt has to put out an additional 11 amps which will require additional torque, which will load the TV internal combustion engine which will burn more gasoline....

ICE's are about 18-25% efficient (more basic thermodynamics). I assumed 22%, and 20% alt and wiring losses. That's just the way it is...which is why if you're heating something electricity is not the best way to go compared to directly burning the fuel.

If you really want to run your fridge on electricity cost (and weight) effectively, convert to a 12V Danfoss compressor based system. Those work great and have been around for over 35 years now (I tested and installed my first ones for NASA in solar powered medical fridges in Africa in the early '80's. That was an interesting trip.

It's what most of the blue water cruisers use who either don't want to or can't carry enough propane. The reason this is cost effective is they are heat pumps not absorption coolers and so have a coefficient of performance around 2. That partially makes up for the 20-ish percent engine efficiency, and also would reduce your solar and battery requirements by about a factor of about 2. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2018 at 7:27am
great write up and comparison.. remember to "run the fridge on solar", there is going to be some cost in a large enough storage solution to get you through the night at least, and a solar array big enough to top it off even on not so sunny days...

I would submit that the electrons used while towing are nearly as free as the ones used while on solar.. the truck is going to make those, whether you use them to run the fridge or not. Modern alternators don't have near as much parasitic drag as old ones, or, if you are as old as me.. generators..

Also, here at least propane is 2.21 a gallon for refills. Don't ever exchange if you don't need a recertified bottle.

also.. as a side side note, never use those 1 pound cylinders of propane unless you have to carry them in a backpack or something.. They work out to being about $80 for the same amount of propane in a 20 pound cylinder, which can be refilled for about $12... in 2 refills you will pay for any and all hoses and connectors possibly needed to run on the Pod's onboard low pressure, or from a stand alone 20 pouinder at high pressure.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2018 at 7:22am
Really interesting! Nice work!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2018 at 6:59am
I was enjoying the debate on what energy source to use to run our fridges. So, nerd that I am, I thought I'd add another dimension to it. This table gives an estimate of the daily fridge run costs under various scenarios. I am NOT getting into the debate about the safety of driving with propane or not. This is strictly about costs. 

Ranked from cheapest to most expensive. Solar is "free" if you have extra because you've already made the investment. So if you're boondocking and have a sunny day with excess solar, consider switching your fridge over to 12V for awhile. Grid electricity is "free" as well if you've already made the decision to pay for hookups for other reasons.  Even if you're paying for it its still the cheapest after using your excess solar. This was based on US average electricity costs, it gets really close to propane though in high electricity cost states.  

What's interesting to me is that propane is cheaper than 12V from the TV even while driving. That's because the first law of thermodynamics says there ain't no free lunch, the extra load on your alternator running your fridge while driving will cause you to burn more gas.

Then come the various genny based electric operations, avoid those for sure. And the worst is to run the fridge on 12V from your TV, an astounding $7 bucks plus per day because of all the wasted fuel idling. 


mode source demand unit assume high setting kWh/d kWh/gal thermal efficiency comments electrical efficiency comments cost per unit unit cost per day Notes
12V solar 130 watts assume high setting 3.1 N/A N/A when excess is avaialble 90% battery round trip $0.00  N/A  $0.00 switch to 12V if you have extra solar
120V grid 135 watts assume high setting 3.2 N/A N/A 99% conductors $0.12  kWh  $0.39 zero incremental if you're paying a fixed fee
Propane 20lb propane cylinder 349 grams/d assume high setting 4.9 26.8 100% included N/A N/A $4.68  gallon  $0.85
12V Gas TV alternator while towing  130 watts assume high setting 3.1 33.7 22% incremental  80% alternator and conductors $2.75  gallon  $1.45
120V inverter generator on gasoline 135 watts assume high setting 3.2 33.7 11% EU2200i drawing 450W 100% included $2.75  gallon  $2.40
12V inverter generator on gasoline 130 watts assume high setting 3.1 33.7 11% EU2200i drawing 450W 80% charger and battery $2.75  gallon  $2.89
120V inverter generator on propane 135 watts assume high setting 3.2 26.8 11% EU2200i drawing 450W 100% included $4.68  gallon  $5.14
12V inverter generator on propane 130 watts assume high setting 3.1 26.8 11% EU2200i drawing 450W 80% charger and battery $4.68  gallon  $6.18
12V Gas TV alternator idling 130 watts assume high setting 3.1 33.7 4.3% assume .3 gph idling drawing 450W 80% alternator and conductors $2.75  gallon  $7.47


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