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mikeyg2347 View Drop Down
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Joined: 27 May 2015
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Posts: 75 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Battery Disconnect Switch
    Posted: 19 May 2019 at 7:38am
Naturally my colors are red and white. I mean, why be consistent? Diversity is a good thing, right? I've got it figured out now, though. "Interrupt the circuit" was what got me over the hump, though I had to process it for an extended period. Got a good discussion going anyway. Switching the positive side makes total sense, especially considering the fireworks displays I created yesterday trying to figure this thing out.
Mike
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Jeepinator View Drop Down
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Posts: 72 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 7:42am
Offgrid, I was hoping your solution would work. Without an electrical diagram though I was unsure how to verify that there were no other connections (drains) between the battery and the converter. 
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EchoGale View Drop Down
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Posts: 463 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 8:04am
University of Youtube is always a good option. You'll find a wiring diagram and an install video there.  Probably for the exact model you bought.
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mikeyg2347 View Drop Down
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Posts: 75 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 8:10am
YouTube U was a total letdown. Normally I can find what I need there but everything on this topic was either switches not even remotely similar to mine or so half-assed you couldn't follow. In one video the guy had his hands in the way the entire time so you never saw what cables were being connected to what posts. No diagrams that I could find.
Mike
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 8:14am
Originally posted by Jeepinator

Offgrid, I was hoping your solution would work. Without an electrical diagram though I was unsure how to verify that there were no other connections (drains) between the battery and the converter. 

I get your concern. Since it looks from their literature that Victron wants their shunt in the negative leg you'll need to be sure that there isn't more than one chassis ground return to the battery. Otherwise the shunt will only pick up part of the current. 

I've never looked at that so I can't say for certain. Maybe someone else has?

One way to check would be to temporarily lift the negative connection from the converter which I think goes to the frame under that area and see if any items are still energized. If you have one you can also try a dc clamp on multimeter to see if there's still any current flow while that connection is lifted.
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podwerkz View Drop Down
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Posts: 966 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by mikeyg2347

..... especially considering the fireworks displays I created yesterday trying to figure this thing out.

If this installation is beyond your knowledge and comfort level, I would suggest you take the trailer to a local RV shop or small mom-n-pop auto shop. Or if you have a relative or friend who is handy with tools and electrical repairs, they might do it for you for a pizza and a 6-pack of beer.

I can easily do this stuff, but some things, like welding, and roofing, I pay for.

The consequences of an error might cost a LOT more than the installation fee you end up paying.
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Posts: 6329 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by offgrid

+1 to podwerks.  

The differentiation is between permanently installed disconnects and maintenance activities. The national electric code only allows grounded (neutral) conductors to be disconnected for maintenance or under special circumstances that we don't need to go into here. 

We should all follow the Code when wiring our trailers. If you look at your home wiring you'll see that the white (neutral) conductor is never disconnected or fused. The colored conductors are always protected by breakers or fuses and are the ones that are switched. By following that practice you can be assured that if you have a fault somewhere you won't end up with more current flowing through an unprotected conductor than its rated for. 
Does that NEC apply to AC circuits or DC circuits. I agree that positive disconnect makes sense for AC circuits. I disagree that it applies equally to DC circuits at the battery . Without the negative terminal connected, where is the complete circuit?
I have a wrench in my tool box that has a divot taken out of it from before I learned to take the negative terminal off first. It did not take long to learn that lesson. The wrench was instantly hot.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by StephenH

]Does that NEC apply to AC circuits or DC circuits.  I agree that positive disconnect makes sense for AC circuits. I disagree that it applies equally to DC circuits at the battery . Without the negative terminal connected, where is the complete circuit? 
I have a wrench in my tool box that has a divot taken out of it from before I learned to take the negative terminal off first. It did not take long to learn that lesson. The wrench was instantly hot.

Yes the NEC applies to both AC and DC circuits. There is no difference with respect to grounding practice and overcurrent protection (other than you don't call the hot conductor the positive in ac circuits, because the voltage alternates positive and negative).  I've designed hundreds of dc power systems and all were required to meet the NEC. 

No one is saying for you not to lift your negative first when doing battery maintenance.  Then, proceed to lift the positive as well.  No one wants to be melting wrenches. I always use one with an insulated handle when I mess with batteries because you can easily end up shorting across the battery terminals as well as to ground. 

But the switch is permanently installed. it's going to be left open indefinitely and unattended.  Podwerks did a great job I think explaining why that should be in the positive (ungrounded) leg. There is no complete circuit until there is a fault or inadvertent connection in the system somewhere. That's what much of the electric code is for, protecting your electrical system in the event of fault conditions, not from normal conditions.  To accomplish that the code provides for a set of neutral conductors  which are not switched and are always referenced to ground and another set of hot conductors that have the necessary fuses, circuit breakers and switches in them.  
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mikeyg2347 View Drop Down
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Posts: 75 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 7:22pm

"If this installation is beyond your knowledge and comfort level, I would suggest you take the trailer to a local RV shop or small mom-n-pop auto shop. Or if you have a relative or friend who is handy with tools and electrical repairs, they might do it for you for a pizza and a 6-pack of beer."

Excellent advice, Podwerkz. I was able to get it done relatively quickly once the concept of interrupting the circuit sank into my brain. Works like a charm. AND i put the switch on the positive side. Thanks for all the input. Much appreciated.
Mike
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Richand Cindy View Drop Down
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Posts: 328 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 8:41am
Cannot say enough how usefull a cutoff switch is.  This is our second year opening up the RV after winter storage.  Batteries left on the RV in the cold NJ winter and no trickle charging at all.  Just turned the switch back on and we are at full charge.
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