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Topic ClosedPushing The Limits On Tow Vehicles
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NWRPodder View Drop Down
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Joined: 17 Sep 2016
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Posts: 18 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pushing The Limits On Tow Vehicles
    Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 6:10pm
Q7-retired you make a good point about diesel vs gasoline engines.

As for my 4Runner the reason I bought it a few years back was because the low miles. It may be 13 years old but has only 120k miles now. I had a 4Runner before go easy over 200k. Of course this was before I towed anything like this and maybe over 100k is getting 'old' to be optimal shape for a vehicle to be a TV.

It's sounding more like I should just push it a little more on the hills as needed to get me by for now and eventually I will upgrade to something else that is a little newer or beefier.
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JHoffman View Drop Down
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Posts: 82 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 8:49pm
NWRPodder, first welcome to the group. Im new this year myself.  One thing I would caution you on is to watch the temp gauge when climbing the hills. Short runs at high RPM are usually ok but prolonged high revs will overheat the engine.  Also it's a good idea to have a way to monitor transmission temps.  My Tundra has a tranny temp gauge from the factory.  I have the 5.7L and I used to set the cruse at 70 and never change it.  Occasionally it would shift down and rev a little over 3000. I've discovered that if I just use a steady foot on the accelerator and allow the speed to drop off just a little on the hills I can get much better MPG's.  My truck has a 10k towing capacity but it's not the weight that makes the vehicle struggle so much as it is the amount of drag it now has to overcome.  The front of the camper is like pulling a big sail behind you.  A 3000 lb pop-up tows much easer then a 3000 lb Pod simply because it's a much lower profile.  Your 4Runner is bigger then what many people on this forum are using, it will do it, just take your time. 
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techntrek View Drop Down
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Posts: 9062 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 8:57pm
Push it.  Higher RPMs won't hurt, and as mentioned it will get you deeper into the power curve.  

Something I didn't see mentioned - always use high-octane gas when towing.  The computer will adjust timing, valves, ignition (various combinations of that depending on manufacturer) to give you the highest power output possible.  Lower octane detonates easier so the computer has to dial things back to prevent that so you don't get as much power output (even though ironically lower octane gas actually has more energy).

More speeds in the tranny don't provide more power at highway speeds.  For instance the GM 4, 6, and 8 speed trannys have almost the same gear ratio in the overdrive (highest) gears, and the middle gears aren't much different.  The difference is the 6 and 8 speed versions have much lower gearing in 1st and 2nd for more torque off the line - plus it allows them to put a more-efficient lower gear in the rear.  So the overall ratio is more efficient on the highway but provides more torque when the light turns green.

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Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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NWRPodder View Drop Down
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Posts: 18 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 8:57am
Thank you JHoffman and techntrek, that feedback is really good and appreciated.

I might look into getting a tranny temp gauge installed before doing real long trips with many hills. I have seen mixed comments elsewhere about a tranny cooling system but seems like the best approach is a gauge to simply monitor it.

I didn't even think of the type of fuel. I normally just get regular unleaded. I will spring for premium or plus next time and see what that does. I would rather pay a little extra at the pump for a little better performance when pulling. Good advice.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 11:32am
Originally posted by NWRPodder

It's sounding more like I should just push it a little more on the hills as needed to get me by for now and eventually I will upgrade to something else that is a little newer or beefier.




That is what I would do. As others have mentioned, short excursions into the 3K RPM range should be fine. My 5.3L V8 will do so if the conditions are right, however, I would not want to do a LOT of living above that range.

If your vehicle does not have a "tow/haul" mode, you may want to tow with the transmission in the next lower gear - below "Drive". The transmission will "hunt" less, it will keep your RPMs a little higher, and keep your transmission fluid cooler.

If you do decide on a transmission cooler, they are rather inexpensive and easy to install, if you are handy with tools.
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Posts: 6329 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by NWRPodder

Thank you JHoffman and techntrek, that feedback is really good and appreciated.

I might look into getting a tranny temp gauge installed before doing real long trips with many hills. I have seen mixed comments elsewhere about a tranny cooling system but seems like the best approach is a gauge to simply monitor it.

I didn't even think of the type of fuel. I normally just get regular unleaded. I will spring for premium or plus next time and see what that does. I would rather pay a little extra at the pump for a little better performance when pulling. Good advice.

Don't bother with a tranny temp gauge. Get an OBDII reader such as the BAFX Products 35t5 Bluetooth OBDII Scan Tool for Android Devices. This is the one I have. I use it in conjunction with the Torque application on my phone. Tablets work also. It will give you much more than just a tranny temp.
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Posts: 33 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 6:15pm
Have you a lot of miles on the 4 Runner?

I've a 1994 Chevy 5.7L Pickup. Torque is stated as 300 foot pounds. With 132,000 miles on it, it struggled to pull a 2400 Lbs trailer up grades. I had changed the oil every 3,000 miles. Truck ran like a top. Just wouldn't pull... A 10% grade was almost impossible. I surmised that my cylinders weren't sealing like a new engine - loss of power under load. I rebuilt the engine - rings, piston, valves, etc. The rebuild made a night and day difference. 
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Posts: 9062 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 8:17pm
Add the tranny cooler, you can never cool a transmission too much (in the summer).

StephenH mentioned the OBDII tool.  Another (more expensive) option that I use is the Aeroforce Interceptor.  Great to keep an eye on things like transmission slip, actual oil temp, current gear, etc.
Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ Pod instruction manual
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NWRPodder View Drop Down
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Posts: 18 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 11:23pm
StephenH and techtrek, those are great ideas to monitor transmission. I found one that will work with iPhone that I think I will pick up called BlueDriver. I still may get a transmission cooler yet won't worry about that until next year now that fall is coming.

Mojave1, real interesting to know you had a huge change in pulling power rebuilding your engine. My 4Runner as 120k which doesn't feel like a lot but I am learning that may be a lot for towing. Will move to higher octane gas to start with and see what difference that makes. I know the prior owner said it ran better with higher grade and of course I said I don't need to do that. Now I think I do.
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Posts: 451 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 7:33am
NWRPodder  For example going over the Oregon Coast range that I would not consider a real steep grade when I hit a hill I need to push my RPMs up to 3400 to 3800 just to stay in the 50 to 54 mph range. Above 54/55 mph is not an option as I am already pushing hard on the pedal just to stay in the 50's. If I want to keep it sub 3000 RPM then I am doing like 45 to 49 mph getting a long string of cars behind me on the single lanes.

 There's nothing wrong with the 4Runner. You will have to modify your expectations.

Your experience is a carbon copy of my own. I owned a 2003 4Runner and I also was not impressed with it's towing capability. I had a Starcraft 17RD , which made the 4runner work (in third gear!!) on the highway. I bought an R-Pod thinking the shape would make it easier to tow (and I wanted a bigger fresh and gray tank) but I was wrong, the Pod towed the same behind the 4Runner.

 I did install a transmission cooler soon after buying the R-Pod, I bought a BlueTooth OBD scanner and used the app Torque to monitor max RPM, trans temp, oil temp. After a year of towing, I decided my 10 year old 4Runner was due for a change, and I bought my current vehicle, a diesel SUV.

Totally different towing experience. Strong, no struggling up grades at 65mph at all, stays in 8th (!) gear on the flats and rarely shifts down to 6th except on very steep pulls, and the speed limit on those stretches is usually 55mph anyway.

 I thought about getting the V8 4Runner, and also the Lexus GX470/460 V8. But the torque ratings on most V8's are still less than my diesel (406ft-lb). Makes all the difference.
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