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Mysterious Electrical Issues

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offgrid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mysterious Electrical Issues
    Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 8:44pm
Your battery does sound like it's too small, but the units your friend at the Autozone suggested are wrong. Battery energy capacity is measured in amp hours, not amps. Amps is a measure of how much power can be provided, not how much energy can be provided. Amp hours tells you how much energy. Starters need lots of power, so batteries meant for starting engines are designed to make lots of amps. RVs need energy, so the best batteries for RV house loads are designed for deep cycling at relatively low amp draw.

Many people get dual 6V deep cycle golf cart batteries in order to have more amp hours available, especially if they are running an inverter.It's not the inverter itself that's consuming all the energy, it's the stuff people try to run with it. Dual 6V golf cart batteries wired in series will give you more than 200 amp hours nominal capacity. Since you should avoid cycling batteries too deep, in practice you can get around 100 amp hours. Those are the largest batteries that will fit on the to the rack of an rpod. They are heavy, so you need to keep the increase in tongue weight in mind, which could be as much at 70-80 lbs higher.

But back to your charging problem, you need to sort that out before you get new batteries. If your converter is getting shore power continuously and is working properly
your battery should not be getting drained, solar or no solar, so something is wrong. It's got nothing to do with your inverter, because that is turned off. So, either you have a big 12V load on somehere which is taking more current than the charger can produce or the charger isnt working right. I suggest you get a multimeter with a DC current clamp on so you can troubleshoot more deeply. Make sure you get a DC, not just an AC clamp on, which are more common. The Chinese ones are around 35-40$ on Amazon. Well worth the investment.





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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pod_Geek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 2:19pm
Assuming that 2021 192s don't come with Lithium batteries then the OEM battery system has been replaced.

If so, two questions:

1)  Has the solar charge controller been set to charge a lithium battery?

2)  Is the OEM converter appropriate for a lithium battery?  I have read (here and elsewhere) that when going to a lithium battery system a new converter is advisable.

I'm not the expert here so let's see how they respond.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 4:58pm
I hadn't heard anything about FR putting Li batteries in rpods. Knowing where they sit in the market I can't see them incurring the cost to do that. I dont see anywhere in this topic where the folks with questions had changed over to Li.

But yes you need a different charging protocol for Li batteries. This is typically done by swapping the charger but there is tvlsst on mm e who has added device in between the charger and then battery. I can't recommend the latter approach.

Some solar charge controller can be set for Li some can't. Check this manual for the ones FR is installing to be sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Giernan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 6:37pm
You are correct - we have not switched to a lithium battery.  Interestingly enough, I had considered looking into it until another user asked in this thread about battery interchangeability and your answer made me think that was more than I wanted to bite off right now, when our RPod is still new and we are still getting “the basics” set up. 

However, FWIW, the solar controller that forest river installed can be set to charge Li. That doesn’t fix the tow vehicle or converter compatibility issues though.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pod_Geek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 8:18am
Originally posted by Giernan

You are correct - we have not switched to a lithium battery....

This is the post I was going off of:

Originally posted by Ghost1671

This information is very helpful. Would you say that the below are the basic components of solar? Is there anything that I am missing?

  • Solar Panel(s)
  • Converter: Takes energy from shore power and stores it in the battery. Is this part of the panel build, or something to purchase separately?
  • Charge Controller: Take energy from solar panel(s), or tow vehicle, and stores it in the battery.
  • Battery: Lithium/12V/6V
  • Inverter: Take energy from the battery and inverts it to 120V.


I'm still a little hazy about the interchangeability of the different types of batteries.
 

Apparently you were asking if you had a lithium battery rather than asserting that you do, eh?  So I misread it.
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Giernan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Giernan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 12:08pm
No sir/ma’m - Ghost1671 is a different commenter who was asking a related question on the same thread. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 2:06pm
It may be that Ghost671 did as I did an installed an LiFePO4 battery. The stock converter is made for Pb-Acid batteries, and is not suited for LiFePO4 chemistry. The charging profile is different. What model of power center do you have? That will make a difference in what to look for. The WFCO 8055 has a converter module that can be changed. Other models may not have a separate module.

Here is something to consider. When you park your R-Pod and are not using it, do you have it plugged in? If not, do you disconnect the negative battery terminal? If not, do you have a battery disconnect switch that you turn off?  The reason for the questions is that there are phantom power draws that you might not be aware of draining your battery when you are not using your R-Pod. One is the TV booster. If you are not watching TV, turn it off. A second is the LP/CO detector. It can't be turned off as it is hard-wired with no breaker or switch. This is a safety item. The only way to stop it from drawing power is to turn a disconnect switch off or disconnect a terminal. A third is the electronics for the AC/furnace and the refrigerator. These are always powered, even if they only draw a minuscule amount of current. These all will serve to drain the battery if it isn't disconnected or if the R-Pod is not plugged into shore power. Even a 15A outlet will serve if you are not running the AC or other high-draw items. The goal is to keep your battery charged.

Last, I don't know if the solar circuit has any drain to it if there is no sunshine. You will need someone more experienced with solar to answer that one. Also, if you are not boondocking, you don't really need a huge battery. You need one adequate to power the trailer during the short times when you are not connected to shore power or your tow vehicle. If you have shore power, use that to run the refrigerator. If not, then use propane. Trying to run the refrigerator on 12V will drain the battery very quickly (ask me how I know Ouch ).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pod_Geek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by Giernan

No sir/ma’m - Ghost1671 is a different commenter who was asking a related question on the same thread. :)

Doh.

Well never mind then.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GlueGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 2:56pm
I was under the impression that FR doesn't install ANY batteries; it's a dealer-installed feature. That kind of makes sense, because you don't really know how long a trailer is going to sit around waiting to be shipped, and then shipped.

I would expect that when it becomes cost-effective, savvy dealers may offer LFP batteries as an option.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 9:51pm
Li batteries are cost effective now if you do a lot of boondocking. Many upscale expedition style RVs come with them now. The cost issue is not the batteries as much as it is the charging circuitry. That can be an expensive proposition if you need to convert it, as we have to do with rpods. Also pretty involved for an inexperienced owner.

As for solar charge controller drain, that is generally very small or zero, most are set up so their electronics are powered from the solar side not the battery side. If there's no solar energy available they don't need to work after all.

But I do agree that disconnectinv the battery is a good idea, as long as you remember that you can't leave lead acid batteries disconnected for long periods. They will self discharge just sitting there, so you need to put them on charge at intervals ranging from a few weeks to a few months depending on the battery and the temperature (high temps more often than cold , deep cycle batts more often than auto batteries).

In this case though it sounds like the battery is going down even though the rpod charger is running which suggests that there might be a big load on somewhere, not just a small parasitic draw.
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