50 or 30 amp

Message Share Topic Printable Version Google Delicious Digg StumbleUpon Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks reddit Facebook MySpace Newsvine Furl Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic

   Lostagain,

What is the difference is plugging a lamp into an outlet on a 30A compatible circuit and a 50A compatible circuit? At an outlet.  It is very difficult to plug a lamp into a 50A plug, such as the power station in a park.  In the case of an outlet the shorted wire will get HOT, draw amps and kick CB to the outlet.  No fire.  Circuit Breakers.

Author	Message Share Topic Printable Version Google Delicious Digg StumbleUpon Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks reddit Facebook MySpace Newsvine Furl Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic
mcarter Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Location: Greenbrier, TN Online Status: Offline Posts: 3419	Topic: 50 or 30 amp Posted: 29 Jan 2019 at 4:06pm
	Lostagain, What is the difference is plugging a lamp into an outlet on a 30A compatible circuit and a 50A compatible circuit? At an outlet. It is very difficult to plug a lamp into a 50A plug, such as the power station in a park. In the case of an outlet the shorted wire will get HOT, draw amps and kick CB to the outlet. No fire. Circuit Breakers.
	Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."

lostagain Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595	Posted: 29 Jan 2019 at 3:07pm
	Ok, so a dead short using my hypothetical 18awg lamp cord plugged into a 50A circuit would be one way to start a fire, but offgrid mentioned some high impedance events that could also create a fire hazard using a conductor not matched to the amperage of the circuit. What would cause high impedance that could light my lamp cord on fire? And I was only kidding about the horse recipe with mustard and thyme sauce. I'm not French and don't really eat horses. ;--) [the emojis don't work from here in Colombia.]
	Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost

mcarter Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Location: Greenbrier, TN Online Status: Offline Posts: 3419	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 4:18pm
	T2 - +1. Maybe we could just go back and find OPs 4 months old and repost everything that was said then, come to the same solution that members had then and up our post count by rehashing the post again, or better yet wait 4 months and start the post again, to make sure you get your point across, to see if anybody is really listening, add another 10 posts to your history, reach same conclusion, then wait - you only have 4 months to wait and do it again. Much more beneficial than using the search function.
	Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."

Tars Tarkas Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 14 Jan 2013 Location: Near Nashville Online Status: Offline Posts: 1452	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 3:04pm
	There's a thread on another forum i read titled, "The last person to post to this thread WINS!" You don't win anything, you just win. It's been going on since 2006 and has almost 56,000 posts. That forum is somewhat more active than this one. Nevertheless, maybe we could get Furpod to change the title of this thread. TT
	2010 176 FJ Cruiser

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 2:40pm
	Yep, StephenH and GlueGuy each found one back in Sept. You could probably put a 50A male connector (with one hot not connected) on the input end and a 30A female on the output. The short 10 AWG cord on the input side wouldn't be rated for 50A unless you could get into the breaker enclosure and replace it with 6 AWG cord. But the rest of your circuit should be good to go. http://www.gordonelectricsupply.com/index~text~6019698~path~product~part~6019698~ds~dept~process~search?gclid=Cj0KCQjwrZLdBRCmARIsAFBZllELPAmgs86UJ-zDo2Nm-iIaP8NFonsn8lONX0TJymNO0kl_7kWSiTYaAkNjEALw_wcB https://www.amazon.com/Cooper-Wiring-Devices-GFI13M1NN-GFCI/dp/B00DUGWDOM/
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 12:59pm
	The idea that all faults are low impedance (meaning direct line to line or line to ground short circuits that produce very high currents), is just not correct. There are numerous examples of high impedance faults on circuits that can produce limited current flows which either by themselves or in combination with actual loads result in currents which (for example) can be in excess of 30A but less than 50A. Otherwise you could just use one circuit breaker size regardless of wire ampacity and call it good. But you can't. Heck, I had one of these faults in my house after the last hurricane corroded one of my outside receptacles. Tripped the breaker only after I turned on my skillsaw, which didn't trip on any other breakers. Couldn't figure out why for awhile. After I found the corrosion and replaced the receptacle, problem solved. If I had had undersized conductors for my breaker I could easily have had a fire. You can't really anticipate all the permutations you might run into with these kind of things. If you follow the NEC it will almost always save your bacon, its saved mine many times. And even if something bad happens anyway, if you follow the code you won't be giving lostagain grounds for a negligence suit
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

lostagain Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 12:21pm
	Tars, I made a reasonably comfortable living thanks to the stupidity of others whos acts resulted in unplanned and adverse consequences. And the supply of those actors seemed to be nearly limitless. With my 18awg example connected to a 200A breaker and our Pod, it's the unplanned events, such as causing a dead short with a sharp metal object that could initiate the cascade of physical occurrances that lead to unpleasant consequences, not the normal current draw from what ever device you happen to be running, like a light bulb. If I ran my ac on the lamp cord with inadequate current protection, …. well I hardly ever use it anyway. ;--)
	Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 11:55am
	I agree, a listed 50 to 30A adapter with integrated overcurrent protection would be ideal. Didn't we find one that would work a few months ago or am I having a senior moment?
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Tars Tarkas Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 14 Jan 2013 Location: Near Nashville Online Status: Offline Posts: 1452	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 11:54am
	If you had a 200 amp breaker powering a 100 w light bulb, an 18g wire would work fine. You'd be pulling 0.8333 amps. Likewise, if your Pod is hooked up to a 50 amp breaker, the entire circuit, from the post to the converter, is only going to be carrying as many amps as you're using. There are imaginable scenarios in which the load could increase to 50 amps. Other than stupidity, the cause would likely be a short circuit -- a bad connection or a bare wire touching ground. Maybe the campground's ground crew ran over your power cable, something like that. I'm guessing in most cases a 50 amp breaker would flip just about as fast as a 30 amp breaker in such a situation. There are good reasons, of course, for having circuits of the appropriate amperage, but it just doesn't seem to me that there's much to worry about in using a 50 to 30 amp dogbone if used with a touch of intelligence. It is interesting, perhaps telling, that 50 to 30 amp dogbones seem to be sold without dire warnings. They should have labels telling users they are very likely to die of electrocution or in an electrically ignited inferno. But they don't. I like the idea of a dogbone with a built-in 30 amp breaker. I can't find one though. TT
	2010 176 FJ Cruiser

lostagain Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 11:52am
	The best solution, it seems to me, would be to continue to boon dock and avoid those fancy high priced campgrounds that cater to those who use 50A for their RV's. Besides when you park between two of them you look like little doll house. As for my Christmas lights, I just bought a bunch of LED lights that run on regular household current. I'll just keep paying my insurance premium and hoping for the best. If the tree catches fire at least it'd look really cool blazing away on a dark, cold winter night. How about a 50A cable to the pod, connected to device that plugs into the outside of the pod containing a 30A breaker that goes to the 30A female plug that connects to the trailer? Then there is really no point along the way where there isn't adequate wire size for the current protection. Another opportunity to sell more RV stuff to fill your available storage.
	Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost