50 or 30 amp

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   That and the connector itself, which is not going to be rated for 50A either. That concealed set of conductors are probably the highest life safety risk area, if they overheat and your trailer catches fire internally you might not get out. The external cable not so much, unless you're in CA where you could start a massive forest fire. 
Get some low voltage led Christmas lights for next year and give that pine tree a new lease on life. 

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offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Topic: 50 or 30 amp Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 11:31am
	That and the connector itself, which is not going to be rated for 50A either. That concealed set of conductors are probably the highest life safety risk area, if they overheat and your trailer catches fire internally you might not get out. The external cable not so much, unless you're in CA where you could start a massive forest fire. Get some low voltage led Christmas lights for next year and give that pine tree a new lease on life.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

GlueGuy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 15 May 2017 Location: N. California Online Status: Offline Posts: 2702	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 11:29am
	So the "proper" solution would be a dogbone adapter with a built-in 30 amp breaker. Not that it is strictly "proper" in any sense, but if you wanted to protect yourself and your pod and the power cord, that would be the way to do it.
	bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost

lostagain Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 11:13am
	The absolute number of electrical fires due to inadequate conductors is what it is, regardless of its relative proportion relative to other potential causes. So now I'm going to have to disconnect our Pod from that lamp cord I have connected directly from our 200A main. ;--) [The emojis are not working here in Colombia for some inexplicable reason.] I'm wondering about those Christmas lights that have closer to 22awg plugged into the 20A breaker that light the pinon pine tree in my yard that burns like a roman candle when ignited. As for dead horses, they go well with a mustard and thyme sauce. But to stay on topic, it's best to use a cable that is designed to carry the current applied to it. So if you want to plug into a 50A breaker, best to size the cable accordingly, but the complication on the Pod would be the concealed wire from the 30A plug on the side of the trailer to the 30A breaker.
	Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 10:10am
	I prefer live horses, they tend not to smell as bad, depending on how often you clean their stalls. lostagain, you are correct, the scenario you're describing certainly presents a similar failure mode. Whether it is a similar hazard or not depends on how likely it is. For this reason the code makes a clear distinction between permanent/concealed wiring and temporary appliance wiring. Being dedicated to a single known load and not concealed inside walls for many years makes it less likely to have the kind of failure we've been talking about. But absolutely it can and does happen, often. Of the roughly 45,000 residential fires annually involving electrical failures roughly 1/3 are due to ignition of electrical/wire insulation. Looks like about 1/3 of that was in lamps and fixtures, so quite a lot. Be careful about confirmation bias though, the lamps and fixtures fires could be a relatively high percentage because safety standards are working well to reduce other causes. Here's a link to the latest NFPA report on this. http://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/News-and-Research/Fire-statistics-and-reports/US-Fire-Problem/Fire-causes/osHomeElectricalFires.pdf
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

lostagain Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 9:32am
	Long live dead horses! ...and pie in the sky, uh, er, I mean clover in the sky. Seriously though, that 18 awg lamp cord the homeowner placed hidden behind the couch to light the lamps on the end tables, or the one he ran under the carpet to reach where there was no plug would seem to present a similar hazard regardless of whether NEC applies. The principle seems to be the same: Conductors not rated for the current load can burn up before the overcurrent is detected by the higher amp overcurrent protection device.
	Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 9:15am
	Folks who feel that the horse has died are welcome to move on anytime they want to, I don't know that its necessary to limit those of us who still sense an equine heartbeat from continuing on until we're certain that the animal has truly gone to greener pastures. Appliance cords aren't treated the same way as permanent wiring because they're visible, dedicated to a single load, and not run through walls or other concealed areas. The NEC doesn't cover them, there are UL standards that apply. I would think it would be pretty easy for one of the EMS device manufacturers to add over current disconnect functionality. The Progressive Industries one for example already monitors current (it has a display for it) and it already has disconnect functionality for other fault conditions.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

mcarter Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Location: Greenbrier, TN Online Status: Offline Posts: 3419	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 8:38am
	+1 to Dead Horse.
	Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."

lostagain Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 7:39am
	So, one shouldn't connect the 18AWG lamp cord to a 20A circuit? If I understand correctly something could happen in the lamp that could put a greater load on the lamp cord, but under 20 amps and the cord would burn up before the circuit breaker tripped? I think this is not unheard of in house fires. Why doesn't someone sell a 50A to 30A converter that has 30A overcurrent protection right in the plug? That would seem to be a simple solution. The only risk, albeit minimal, would be in the space between where the plug connects and the 30A fuse or circuit breaker. Indeed, selling converters without that protection might give me enough work to come out of retirement.
	Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost

offgrid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290	Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 5:00am
	We'll.... perhaps the campgrounds aren't littered with burned up trailers because most owners are reading and following the required label on their trailer power supply connection, which states the circuit rating and says, in all caps: "DO NOT EXCEED CIRCUIT RATING. EXCEEDING THE CIRCUIT RATING MAY CAUSE A FIRE AND RESULT IN DEATH OR SERIOUS INJURY". Just sayin'...But feel free to ignore that label, as I've said that's a personal choice. What would I do if I was in a campground with hookups that I really had to use and found the 30A receptacle to be non functional? I'd use the 20A one which is perfectly safe and can run everything in an rPod (just not all at the same time). As far as risk aversion and fear are concerned, I'm personally not the least bit afraid of low (under 600V) electrical circuits. Been designing and working around them my whole professional life. Respectful yes. Afraid no. Respectful in part because I've seen the results of electrical fires caused by the kind of high impedance faults that that warning label is trying to mitigate against. High impedance faults can create currents that are above the ampacity of the conductors but below the overcurrent protection rating in improperly designed systems. Medium and high voltage circuits, now those scare the daylights out of me.
	1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold

StephenH Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6417	Posted: 26 Jan 2019 at 10:07pm
	+1 TT
	StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS