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Jholler View Drop Down
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Posts: 99 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Eco-diesel
    Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 12:50pm
Traded yesterday. Let the 2010 ram 2500 with the hemi and 10mpg go for a 2014 ram 1500 with the 3.0 ecodiesel and 50k miles of power train warranty left. I'm averaging 23mpg in town, almost 30 on the highway. (Those numbers are for empty, no trailer on both trucks). Side by side comparison accounting for mileage and cost of fuel (I ran 89oct in the hemi) predicts $2000+ savings in fuel per year. MUCH smoother ride too, lol.
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Keith-N-Dar View Drop Down
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Posts: 1447 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 1:25pm
That sounds great!  enjoy it. 
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DavMar View Drop Down
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Posts: 592 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by Jholler

Traded yesterday. Let the 2010 ram 2500 with the hemi and 10mpg go for a 2014 ram 1500 with the 3.0 ecodiesel and 50k miles of power train warranty left. I'm averaging 23mpg in town, almost 30 on the highway. (Those numbers are for empty, no trailer on both trucks). Side by side comparison accounting for mileage and cost of fuel (I ran 89oct in the hemi) predicts $2000+ savings in fuel per year. MUCH smoother ride too, lol.


Congrats! Pardon my ignorance but is that a Cummings motor, how many hp? Hope it gives you many trouble free motoring miles.
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ToolmanJohn View Drop Down
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Posts: 451 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by DavMar

Originally posted by Jholler

Traded yesterday. Let the 2010 ram 2500 with the hemi and 10mpg go for a 2014 ram 1500 with the 3.0 ecodiesel and 50k miles of power train warranty left. I'm averaging 23mpg in town, almost 30 on the highway. (Those numbers are for empty, no trailer on both trucks). Side by side comparison accounting for mileage and cost of fuel (I ran 89oct in the hemi) predicts $2000+ savings in fuel per year. MUCH smoother ride too, lol.


Congrats! Pardon my ignorance but is that a Cummings motor, how many hp? Hope it gives you many trouble free motoring miles.

The 3.0L V6 diesel engines used by Chrysler are built by VM Motari, Italy. They have been making diesels for a long time. 
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Jholler View Drop Down
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Posts: 99 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 9:29pm
That's right. Only 240hp, but 420lbs of torque. More torque than a 5.7 hemi, but less than the Cummins.
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Posts: 99 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2018 at 7:51pm
Haven't towed with it yet, but I'm averaging 23mpg in town...can't complain!
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DavMar View Drop Down
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Posts: 592 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2018 at 8:35pm
Jholler, not surprised at the mpg your getting with the 3.0 eco-diesel but am glad to hear it's so good for you. I bet when you tow with it you'll be wondering if your pulling anything behind you! You will have to let us all know how it goes when you do pull your Pod. I also hope your eco-diesel  engine works out well for you because all I read about it seems its kind of 50/50 with those who love it and those who's engines have failed. If you don't have to worry about passing emission standards where you live you might want to look into doing a "delete" where you eliminate your EGR, DPF, and DEF, which eliminates allot of problems with new late model diesel engines. Just google "diesel engines delete" if your wondering what that is all about.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 7:33am
Not to rain on the diesel parade too much because I actually think small diesels have a lot of potential, but bear in mind when comparing to gassers that a gallon of diesel contains about 12% more chemical energy than gasoline and low sulphur diesel costs on average about 14-15% more than gas. So whether you're after efficiency/low carbon output per mile or cost effectiveness you have to reduce your diesel numbers by about that fraction to be comparing apples to apples.

The 2018 4x2 Ram 1500 3.5L gasser is rated at 25 mpg highway, the same truck with the 3.0 Ecodiesel is at 27 mpg. That's about an 8% difference so you're actually behind with the diesel on that score.  I'm not doubting DavMar's personal comparison but you really have to use a standardized test to make a true comparison, and you know for sure that Dodge is going to work hard to tune each of their drivetrain combos to optimize results on those tests. The 5.7l hemi got 21 mpg highway, so the diesel beats that hands down,  but no one buys a hemi for fuel efficiency, right?  

Then there is the reliability question combined with the current emissions standards. You'd think that of all the diesel experience and money VW has that they would be on top of that but look what happened to them. I think ultimately the manufacturers will get that sorted and at that point diesels will probably be the way to go for pulling heavier loads longer distances, because fundamentally the engines can be more efficient than gassers.  But we're not there yet or at least it hasn't been proven yet by years of actual usage. 

Personally I can't afford to be a beta tester. I loved the hybrid concept from the first time I heard about it in the 90's, but I waited until the gen 3 Prius came out in 2010, 10 years after the first introduction before I bought one. Fantastic car, does everything you'd ever want it to do, super reliably and super efficient. But it won't tow an rPod...

And sorry but I very much disagree with deleting emissions equipment from vehicles, especially diesels. If you want to know what happens if everyone did that just spend a few weeks in a city in India like I did last year. Everyone drives diesels there because the fuel is subsidized and there are no emissions regs on them. You literally can't breath the air most days.  i basically stayed inside as much as possible to avoid the fine particle diesel pollution there, which is extremely hazardous. 

Just my $0.02. 

 
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2702 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 8:29am
You may not want to rain on diesel's parade, but I will. First, there is no question that diesel is more efficient on an MPG basis; mainly because of the aforementioned higher energy value per unit volume.

However, the caveats are numerous. First a diesel version of most vehicles that have the option is a ~~ $5,000 premium to start. Second, diesel fuel costs 15-20% more than gasoline (at least it does around here). Third maintenance on diesels is typically much higher; the amount varies by region and vehicle. Fourth, even with the latest, greatest emissions, there is considerable debate about that being effective.

And then finally, there is the issue of "emissions cheating", which seems to be rampant in Europe. Sure, VW got caught, but based on what I've been reading, they are not the only ones; especially in Europe.

If you can get a killer deal like Jholler, it changes the equation quite a lot, so I'm not discounting something like that.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 9:27am
GlueGuy, everything you're saying is correct. 

But diesel engines thermodynamically are more efficient than gassers, for two reasons, maybe more. They run higher compression ratios and they don't have throttle plates. This is over and above any benefit from fuel energy density. If they weren't more efficient long haul truckers wouldn't use them.

Everything else being equal they would beat gas engines. But as you say, things aren't equal, at least not yet, and the emissions cheating is for sure a big setback. 
1994 Chinook Concourse
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