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Olddawgsrule
Senior Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Location: New Hampshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1014
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Topic: Floor failure!!! Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 8:21am |
You folks know if FR makes this frame? If not who the supplier is?
Haven't heard back from the Dealership yet.. No news is not good news in this case..
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furpod
Moderator Group - pHp
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Location: Central KY
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6128
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Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 7:30am |
Originally posted by offgrid
Originally posted by David and Danette
I was told by a RV dealer that the electric brakes were designed to not lock up. |
The way it is supposed to work for max emergency braking is that you set up your brake controller so that at its maximum adjusted output voltage (when the manual slide is fully on) the braking force is just short of lockup on dry pavement. That is the setup procedure the controller manufacturers recommend because that will give you the shortest stops. If you set the controller voltage higher and apply full brakes you will lock up the wheels which will cause the braking force to go down because you're now skidding along on a patch of melting rubber so the friction coefficient is reduced. If you set the voltage lower then you are not going to get all the possible braking action if you ever need it.
On many travel trailers, my rPod being one, you can't get enough braking action to lock up the wheels even at full voltage from the brake controller. The brakes just aren't powerful enough. Since I can't get there I have no idea how much more emergency stopping power my tires could give me before I start to skid. If a trailer salesperson wants to call that a design "feature" ok I guess, but to me its a design weakness. I'd prefer to have more brake capacity available and be able to adjust them with my brake controller to the level I want.
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Switch to discs.. popular mod in a couple other groups I am in..
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offgrid
Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
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Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 3:17am |
Originally posted by David and Danette
I was told by a RV dealer that the electric brakes were designed to not lock up. |
The way it is supposed to work for max emergency braking is that you set up your brake controller so that at its maximum adjusted output voltage (when the manual slide is fully on) the braking force is just short of lockup on dry pavement. That is the setup procedure the controller manufacturers recommend because that will give you the shortest stops. If you set the controller voltage higher and apply full brakes you will lock up the wheels which will cause the braking force to go down because you're now skidding along on a patch of melting rubber so the friction coefficient is reduced. If you set the voltage lower then you are not going to get all the possible braking action if you ever need it.
On many travel trailers, my rPod being one, you can't get enough braking action to lock up the wheels even at full voltage from the brake controller. The brakes just aren't powerful enough. Since I can't get there I have no idea how much more emergency stopping power my tires could give me before I start to skid. If a trailer salesperson wants to call that a design "feature" ok I guess, but to me its a design weakness. I'd prefer to have more brake capacity available and be able to adjust them with my brake controller to the level I want.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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David and Danette
podders Helping podders - pHp
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1226
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Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 7:32pm |
Originally posted by offgrid
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule
With all that said.. Wouldn't braking spread that force over both sides? Wouldn't then the torsion be working in my favor? Now 'I'm' learning enough to be dangerous.. or confusing the crap out of myself..
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Yes, braking would act to apply a moment (torque) to the axle and frame on both sides. How much depends on how aggressively you're braking, how much weight is on your trailer wheels, how good your brakes are, and the coefficient of friction between the tires and the road. Typical dry pavement friction coefficient for street tires is about 0.7 just before lockup so theoretically you could get 3500 lb x 0.7/2 = 1225 lbs force at the contract patch on each side. With about a 14 inch moment arm (because I have a lift kit) that's 17150 in-lb, compared to about 12250 in-lb for the moment from the torsion axle at 1g. In practice I can't lock up my trailer brakes (new and properly burned in) on dry pavement even with my brake controller on full boost so its going to be less than that.
In any case, its pretty easy to see how the combination of some braking plus the vertical force on the frame from hitting a bump, plus the torque from the torsion axle from hitting its stop could combine to bend or break the frame at that spot. In future when I brake for a bump or pothole I'm going to try to be careful to release the brakes before the trailer actually rolls over the bump.
No, the torque applied to the frame from the torsion axle and the brakes is in the same direction of rotation (counterclockwise when looking at the slide side).
[/QUOTE
I was told by a RV dealer that the electric brakes were designed to not lock up. |
I was told by a RV dealer that the electric brakes were designed to not lock up.
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2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-2025)
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019)
2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014)
Middle Tn
2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab
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Olddawgsrule
Senior Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Location: New Hampshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1014
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Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 3:54pm |
Originally posted by furpod
My guess is they will straighten the frame, and reinforce it with a flat panel scab. That's what I would do.
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First statement was, they'd be asking for a new frame. That was a couple days ago before they had it and going by my pictures.
If it comes back here, un-repaired, be ready for a thread of removing the box and upgrading the frame.
I did start a thread asking if anyone has removed/separated the body from the frame. Hoping someone has..
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furpod
Moderator Group - pHp
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Location: Central KY
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6128
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Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 2:48pm |
My guess is they will straighten the frame, and reinforce it with a flat panel scab. That's what I would do.
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offgrid
Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
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Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 10:04am |
Sent!
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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Olddawgsrule
Senior Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Location: New Hampshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1014
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Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 9:05am |
Trailer went to the Dealership yesterday afternoon. I just heard from the Dealership that it's going in today for inspection. Statement was shortly..
I may have an indication of where this is going later today.
Send some good JUJU may way please!
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offgrid
Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
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Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 3:47am |
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule
With all that said.. Wouldn't braking spread that force over both sides? Wouldn't then the torsion be working in my favor? Now 'I'm' learning enough to be dangerous.. or confusing the crap out of myself..
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Yes, braking would act to apply a moment (torque) to the axle and frame on both sides. How much depends on how aggressively you're braking, how much weight is on your trailer wheels, how good your brakes are, and the coefficient of friction between the tires and the road. Typical dry pavement friction coefficient for street tires is about 0.7 just before lockup so theoretically you could get 3500 lb x 0.7/2 = 1225 lbs force at the contract patch on each side. With about a 14 inch moment arm (because I have a lift kit) that's 17150 in-lb, compared to about 12250 in-lb for the moment from the torsion axle at 1g. In practice I can't lock up my trailer brakes (new and properly burned in) on dry pavement even with my brake controller on full boost so its going to be less than that.
In any case, its pretty easy to see how the combination of some braking plus the vertical force on the frame from hitting a bump, plus the torque from the torsion axle from hitting its stop could combine to bend or break the frame at that spot. In future when I brake for a bump or pothole I'm going to try to be careful to release the brakes before the trailer actually rolls over the bump.
No, the torque applied to the frame from the torsion axle and the brakes is in the same direction of rotation (counterclockwise when looking at the slide side).
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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furpod
Moderator Group - pHp
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Location: Central KY
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6128
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Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 5:01pm |
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule
This has always been a rumor for me, due never asking.. So I shall!
It's rumored that the HRE's have a 5200# axle. If true, are their frame's also of thicker steel?
I met a HRE owner that claimed his axle was a 5200#... |
No.
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