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StephenH ![]() podders Helping podders - pHp ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6456 |
![]() Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 11:11pm |
Having towed out west in the mountains with both a 4 cylinder (Ford Escape with 2L Ecoboost) and 6 cylinders (Nissan Frontier with 4L naturally aspirated engine), I think I have the ability to speak on this topic. While we live in NC, we have been out west 3 times with our 179 in passes up to and over 8,000 ft. as well as in the eastern mountains of the Blue Ridge Parkway (BRP) and Appalachians. As others have stated, torque is the key. In any but low altitudes, the 4 cylinder Escape had more torque and horsepower than the V6 Frontier since the turbocharger kept the air supply to the engine adequate to generate torque while the V6 (according to Nissan) lost 4% power for every thousand feet in altitude. The torque curve of the Ecoboost engine is also flatter than a non-turbocharged engine. The Escape was rated for 3500 lbs. The Frontier (Crew Cab 4x4) is rated for 6100 lbs. The extra gears in the Ford helped also. I used to tow in Sport (Schlepp) mode which locked out overdrive and changed the sift points. With the Frontier, I turn off overdrive if I am not driving in flat terrain. Both vehicles would pull up a hill and I never got down to 30 mph unless I got stuck behind a tractor-trailer and could not pass. Still, when I could pass, I was able to gain speed albeit in a low gear at high RPMs (most recently a few days ago). The one time I had heat problems with the Escape, it was climbing a twisty "scenic byway" in Virginia up to the BRP. I could not gain any speed so airflow across the radiator and transmission cooler was inadequate.The engine finally cut power to reduce heat but still I had to stop for a few minutes so it could cool before continuing. Our speeds were about 5-15 mph on that climb. Once we gained speed, cooling was adequate as with the altitude, the ambient air temperature was also lower. After that trip, I had the transmission oil changed to make sure we had good fluid for the next trip. The Escape was okay with strong headwinds as long as we limited our towing speed to 60 mph or less. If it were a crosswind, the lighter weight of the Escape plus the frontal area of the R-Pod made it too squirrely so lower sppeds were less "white knucle" than trying to go faster. Even with the Frontier, we limit our speed to 60 mph with rare excursions to 65 mph. It is better for the gas mileage that way. Plus, the towing speed limits in many states are 55 or 60 mph, not the stated 80 mph of the Interstate highways out west. After our accident, we bought the Frontier. We are on the final leg of a month+ trip from North Carolina out west to Arizona, Utah, Idaho, Monana, Wyoming, returning by way of Yellowstone NP and Mount Rushmore. The Frontier does not have the pep of the Ecoboost, but it did serve adequately. On many of the climbs, it did have to switch to a low gear with high RPMs, but it did climb okay as stated above. The problem with the Subaru is that it while the short wheelbase is not necessarily bad (short distance between center of rear axle and center of hitch ball) means that the trailer exerts less force than if the distance is greater. We noticed this when we got the Frontier and the same winds and trucks that nudged us with the Escape were much more noticeable with the Frontier which had about 2' more distance between axle and hitch ball than the Escape. The engine and gearing are a concern. The Escape worked because of the Ecoboost engine. If the Subaru is not turbocharged, I agree with the other posters that you would find it woefully inadequate for the western mountains.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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Live2Camp ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Apr 2017 Location: No. California Online Status: Offline Posts: 240 |
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Good for you for doing your research! Since you're in the SF Bay Area you know that you can't go very far in either direction, without going up or down a hill or a mountain range. And that the roads in our outer coast range in particular, are especially steep even though the elevation isn't as high as the Sierra. And of course in the Sierra, Cascades and Rockies we're dealing with high elevation. Can you rent a trailer and try it out? Not in San Francisco! Lostagain suggested that but of course also made it clear you should drive it first without a trailer, after which you would never take a trailer there (he made the point very effectively!). I know that particular intersection and others in SF like it, it's where my parents used to take me and my siblings for "here's how you drive a stick shift in The City" lessons. But depending on where in the Bay Area you are, there are lots of places you could do some tests with a rental. We live in the outer coast range and are really familiar with the region, if I can be of help regarding location suggestions feel free to message me off-list. If you really want an RPod, which is completely understandable because we sure love ours and as far as I can tell everyone here loves theirs, I hope you will be able to either rent or buy an appropriate tow vehicle. Lastly, thinking about the general region and that one could only avoid hills and mountains by driving the section of Hwy 5 MOL between Sacramento and well north of the Grapevine, I have stuck tune syndrome: "Mountains to the left of us, mountains to the right, here we are". Not that I'm complaining of course, since I love mountains. Welcome to the forum by the way, and hoping that collectively we can be of help!
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2017 R-Pod 179 HRE (the green one)
His:Ford F150 double cab 4WD; Hers/mine:Tacoma V6 double cab 4WD Still love rugged, diggin' comfy too |
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mcarter ![]() podders Helping podders - pHp ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Location: Greenbrier, TN Online Status: Offline Posts: 3419 |
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The only thing I would tow with a 4 CYL is a lawn tractor. Then I'd think about it. Moving a RV is not the same as towing it under all conditions.
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Mike Carter
2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
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OldNeumanntapr ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 May 2018 Location: CA Online Status: Offline Posts: 204 |
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I felt comfortable with my 4 cyl Tacoma and 1,500 lb tent trailer because I still (on paper) had 2000 lbs of leeway in my towing capacity. BUT, the engine was laboring hard on hills, especially on the two-lane country roads. Sometimes I had to drop to second gear. Once (on highway 12 in Utah) I had to drop to FIRST gear. Flat ground was OK, but I could never use overdrive, not that I wanted to anyway.
There were places that I KNEW I couldn't go, like the mountain grade that leads up the valley floor to Sequoia National Park, or the steep down grade that leads to Mill Creek campground at Del Norte Coast Redwoods (just south of Crescent City, CA.) I worried that the truck couldn't pull us back up to highway 1. Like others have said, DON'T Gamble with your safety, or put your engine / transmission in jeopardy. Costly breakdowns while on vacation are NOT fun! Rent a truck to pull the rPod or simply stay with what you have and know your limitations.
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ArenaBlanca ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 2016 Location: Alamogordo, NM Online Status: Offline Posts: 158 |
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There discussion of what you can tow with never ends. It is interesting that this one started with the concept of using a 4 cylinder vehicle. It really isn't a matter of cylinders. Offenhausers had 4 cylinders. I was once told that torque determines whether you can do something and horsepower determine how fast you can do it. I have found this to be true when towing campers.
Check your horsepower and torque curves for your engine. You may find you have sufficient power but only at extremely high RPM's. And that causes lots of engine heat and other problems. I tow with my pickup because that is what I had. I still use a anti-sway bar and would recommend it. You might want to investigate the possibility of renting a pickup or other tow vehicle if you are just going be using it for a couple of weeks. Just my opinion an $0.02.
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Enjoy Life!!
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crankster78 ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 08 May 2018 Location: Minn Online Status: Offline Posts: 163 |
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Greetings How far are you going to tow and how often?. I would not be comfortable towing with a short wheelbase, underpowered TV. You want to think of your personal safety and the safety of those around you. Towing anything involves a higher level of responsibility. Crankster78 R-179 F-150
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Crankster 78 R-179 2015
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furpod ![]() Moderator Group - pHp ![]() ![]() Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Location: Central KY Online Status: Offline Posts: 6128 |
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Used to own a first generation Forester, great little rig for lots of things.. Towing isn't one of them.. Certainly not towing a Pod.
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lostagain ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595 |
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We tow a 2009 172 that is comparable to what you propose to tow. Recently we drove from northern Nevada to Sedona AZ, and on to CO. We were loaded a little heavier than usual since we were packed for a 2 week trip. There was more than one grade in that trip where we were we had to drop down into 2nd lowest gear and were working to hold a speed of 30, and that was with a 4.7L V-8.
I used to own a Subaru Forester, same motor as the Outback but a little lighter, so I have an idea of the capacity of the Subie. Quite frankly, I don't think you could travel between Flagstaff and Phoenix without overheating and damaging your engine and/or transmission. Your wet weight (you and all your stuff) in a 173 will exceed the rated towing capacity of your car. A WDH would help balance the load, but the drivetrain of your car will be beyond it's capacity. You might be able to pull the trailer in flat places like Kansas, but once you have to deal with anything beyond a 2 or 3% grade you're likely to do serious harm to your car that could result in repair costs exceeding the value of your car. I notice you are from the SF Bay area. A suggestion to consider before you buy the trailer: Hook it to your car and fill the fresh water tank and add some more weight to simulate a camping trip, then drive to the Mission District of San Francisco. Go to 21st street and Church St. and try to drive up the hill to Sanchez St. If your car can comfortably pull the trailer up that hill, then maybe you'll do ok. A word of caution though: Drive on that hill first with just your car. Once you do, I don't think you'd attempt it with a travel trailer. Given the amount of camping that you mentioned and that fact that you don't seem to want to invest in a tow vehicle or own two vehicles, you may want to consider renting. You can rent a really nice Cruise America class C RV and, on a cost per night basis, be far better off than you'd be buying a trailer that your car cannot safely pull. Be cautious in considering the suggestions of people who don't live in or haven't traveled extensively west of the Great Plains. Though they are genuinely trying to be helpful, many don't realize how steep and high our mountains are. The mountains in the east are what we in the west consider "foothills" and do not qualify as "mountains." Even the Blue Ridge Mountains are not much more than our California coastal hills. It's common to encounter 7,000 foot passes out west [think driving to Lake Tahoe from the Bay Area] with long steep, curving roads. Those climbs are hard on vehicles towing well within their weight limit and are disastrous for a car that is pulling more than it's engine and transmission can handle. I don't mean to rain on your parade, but if you try to tow a 173 with your Subaru you will not be happy.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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Happy Tripping ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 May 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 473 |
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This is from a previous forum member, but I feel it's both helpful and relevant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrpI01yegm8 I'm told, add about 800 pounds to a trailer for contents, my 171 with 4500 # towing capacity is comfortable towing, but even 3500 is very 'iffy'. C'mon - ?Gas guzzling 6 cylinder!? Just wait 'til you see your gas mileage when going up one of the western mountains with ANYTHING.
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"There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he must take the bull by the tail and face the situation" - W.C. Fields
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When I purchased my 2010 RP173, I had a 2008 GMC Canyon pickup truck with a 4 cyl. engine, rated to tow 3200lbs. I speak from experience. I would NOT recommend it........unless I hated you! However, I don't think I hate you, since I don't know you. ![]() It's not the weight that kills you. It is more the wind resistance of the high profile trailer. It's OK up to about 40mph. Above that begins to exceed the capabilities of the vehicle. If any amount of headwind or incline is encountered, the situation worsens. |
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