R-pod Owners Forum : ELECTRIC ? http://www.rpod-owners.com/ This is an XML content feed of; R-pod Owners Forum : Miscellaneous / Off-topic : ELECTRIC ? Copyright (c) 2006-2009 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Sat, 02 May 2026 22:34:55 +0000 Thu, 19 Jan 2023 03:14:39 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 9.64 360 www.rpod-owners.com/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=15579 R-pod Owners Forum http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_images/web_wiz_forums.png http://www.rpod-owners.com/ ELECTRIC ? : Originally posted by lostagainI... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150694#150694 Author: offgrid
Subject: 15579
Posted: 19 Jan 2023 at 3:14am

Originally posted by lostagain

I also like the use of wire nuts and crimp on connectors but one must be careful to size them correctly to the wire you're connecting and tighten them carefully and fully.  If the wrong size is used, or if it is not properly tightened, a wire can slip out and that can create arcing and fire and shock hazards.  I've personally never used the WAGO style connectors, so I have in experience on how well they work. From the videos I've watched demonstrating their use, it appears that even an idiot like me could successfully use them.



Sure, any mechanical splice can come undone. Probably wire nuts are worse than those Romex spices. If I'm making a wire splice I really need to have work no matter what (like in my airplane) it will be soldered anand coverd with heat shrink.

But that's not Code compliant. So in household wiring you need the splice in a box so it's strain relieved, the surrounding flammable materials are separated in case of arcing, and most importantly so theres accessibility to fix problems that occur. That is what the Code requires  with the exception that the Romex splice device is allowed for repairs. 

I expect that's because there isn't another good option for that situation. If you drive a screw through some Romex in your wall, you typically won't have enough slack to be able to repair it in a single box, you'd need two boxes, 4 wirenuts, and a new length of romex.  A real PITA with more connections that could open up in future. 

I haven't used Wagos either. Not sure that theyd be any better than wirenuts though  and it looks like they're take up a low of valuable box real estate. 
 


]]> Thu, 19 Jan 2023 03:14:39 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150694#150694 ELECTRIC ? : I probably should have cut the... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150693#150693 Author: StephenH
Subject: 15579
Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 10:21pm

I probably should have cut the other one, but I thought some braking was better than none.]]> Wed, 18 Jan 2023 22:21:50 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150693#150693 ELECTRIC ? : Originally posted by StephenHI... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150689#150689 Author: offgrid
Subject: 15579
Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 4:31pm

Originally posted by StephenH


I had to tow ours home from South Carolina with only one side working. With a good sway control system in place, it is noticeable, but not extreme. I made sure that I left plenty of room for braking so I would not have to slam on the brakes though.

I think I might just cut the other brake line if I couldn't fix the open one while on the road. Probably better to have no trailer brakes than have one wheel grabbing.
]]> Wed, 18 Jan 2023 16:31:40 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150689#150689 ELECTRIC ? : Originally posted by lostagainHow... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150685#150685 Author: GlueGuy
Subject: 15579
Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 11:03am

Originally posted by lostagain

How many of you saw Country Joe and the Fish in 1967 in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco?  It was a part of a free concert.  
Did not see them there, but I did see them when they played Fort Ord in 1970 (I think it was 1970)...

]]> Wed, 18 Jan 2023 11:03:28 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150685#150685 ELECTRIC ? : I also like the use of wire nuts... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150684#150684 Author: lostagain
Subject: 15579
Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 10:54am

I also like the use of wire nuts and crimp on connectors but one must be careful to size them correctly to the wire you're connecting and tighten them carefully and fully.  If the wrong size is used, or if it is not properly tightened, a wire can slip out and that can create arcing and fire and shock hazards.  I've personally never used the WAGO style connectors, so I have in experience on how well they work. From the videos I've watched demonstrating their use, it appears that even an idiot like me could successfully use them.]]> Wed, 18 Jan 2023 10:54:43 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150684#150684 ELECTRIC ? : Originally posted by offgridThe... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150683#150683 Author: StephenH
Subject: 15579
Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 9:10am

Originally posted by offgrid

The difference is that in a brake line it won't start a fire if it loses contact, although conceivably you could lose control of the trailer if one wheel brakes and the other doesn't.

I had to tow ours home from South Carolina with only one side working. With a good sway control system in place, it is noticeable, but not extreme. I made sure that I left plenty of room for braking so I would not have to slam on the brakes though.
]]> Wed, 18 Jan 2023 09:10:11 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150683#150683 ELECTRIC ? : Originally posted by offgridSo... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150678#150678 Author: jato
Subject: 15579
Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 8:49am

Originally posted by offgrid



So personally I wouldn't use one even for repairs where it would be code compliant. Call me old school but I'd just make my splice with wire nuts in the existing 1 gang box and put a blank cover plate on it. 



+1  Can't beat the wire nut for splicing.  However another great splice we used on the golf course were the Scotchlock, underground/underwater packs.  Used those for 30+ years, never had 1 failure. 
]]> Wed, 18 Jan 2023 08:49:21 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150678#150678 ELECTRIC ? : Back (semi) on topic. Never... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150676#150676 Author: offgrid
Subject: 15579
Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 8:13am

Back (semi) on topic. Never having looked at one of those Romex splices I was curious how they make electrical contact. Sure enough, as I suspected the one I looked at uses insulation displacement connections, like the connectors FR uses on rpod brake lines. We all know how well those work (not). The difference is that in a brake line it won't start a fire if it loses contact, although conceivably you could lose control of the trailer if one wheel brakes and the other doesn't. Inside a wall at 120Vac it could draw an arc. 

So personally I wouldn't use one even for repairs where it would be code compliant. Call me old school but I'd just make my splice with wire nuts in the existing 1 gang box and put a blank cover plate on it. 

Not trying to restart a debate, that's just my opinion, Folks can do what they want (and their AHJs approve).  
]]> Wed, 18 Jan 2023 08:13:04 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150676#150676 ELECTRIC ? : Missed that. At 13 my folks didn't... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150674#150674 Author: offgrid
Subject: 15579
Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 7:25am

Missed that. At 13 my folks didn't consider me to be old enough for the summer of love in SF. Because it was local the Airplane in Santa Cruz was ok tho. Shouldnt have been. ]]> Wed, 18 Jan 2023 07:25:53 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150674#150674 ELECTRIC ? : How many of you saw Country Joe... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150673#150673 Author: lostagain
Subject: 15579
Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 6:32am

How many of you saw Country Joe and the Fish in 1967 in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco?  It was a part of a free concert.  ]]> Wed, 18 Jan 2023 06:32:02 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150673#150673 ELECTRIC ? : The Airplane. May 67. Coconut... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150671#150671 Author: offgrid
Subject: 15579
Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 1:31am

The Airplane. May 67.  Coconut Grove, Santa Cruz.  Strobes and mesc.

Surrealistic Pillow hadn't been released yet, so it was my first time hearing Grace Slick belt out White Rabbit. An experience never to be forgotten, or equalled either. 

I guess at this point though Im mostly just glad I survived that crazy time....
]]> Wed, 18 Jan 2023 01:31:22 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150671#150671 ELECTRIC ? : Nazareth was pretty darn good,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150669#150669 Author: gpokluda
Subject: 15579
Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 5:55pm

Nazareth was pretty darn good, but the Meatloaf Bat Out of Hell Tour was what rock dreams are made of.]]> Tue, 17 Jan 2023 17:55:54 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150669#150669 ELECTRIC ? : nazereth concerts were awesome.... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150668#150668 Author: hogone
Subject: 15579
Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 4:46pm

nazereth concerts were awesomeThumbs Up.  jon]]> Tue, 17 Jan 2023 16:46:26 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150668#150668 ELECTRIC ? : Yes, OG and I are just two argumentative... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150667#150667 Author: lostagain
Subject: 15579
Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 3:31pm

Yes, OG and I are just two argumentative grumpy old men, but we don't take each other too seriously.  It's just a game of the "dozens."   

As for smoking, never have been a fan.  I did inhale a few times, but it was almost half a century ago.  
]]> Tue, 17 Jan 2023 15:31:10 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150667#150667 ELECTRIC ? : We're all good Hogone, LA... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150665#150665 Author: offgrid
Subject: 15579
Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 1:53pm

We're all good Hogone, LA and I actually respect each other's opinions, we're just old and get cantankerous at times.

As for smoking a doob, the older I get the more I feel the need to keep the brain cells I have left over from having grown up in NorCal. So I don't smoke anything anymore unfortunately....
]]> Tue, 17 Jan 2023 13:53:22 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150665#150665 ELECTRIC ? : you guys (OG/LA) need to go out... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150664#150664 Author: hogone
Subject: 15579
Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 12:37pm

you guys (OG/LA) need to go out and smoke a big old doobie and relax man!!LOL  this was meant to be a friendly/simple inquiry.  now maybe thats a subject we should debate!!  jpp]]> Tue, 17 Jan 2023 12:37:39 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150664#150664 ELECTRIC ? : I don't want to get in the... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150662#150662 Author: Pod People
Subject: 15579
Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 9:55am

I don't want to get in the middle of this words tangle, but...............

I was a Licensed General Contractor in NC for 35 years and owned a residential construction company.  I can ASSURE all of you that individual city/county inspectors have a LOT of latitude in interpreting the codes they are paid to enforce. I worked in multiple cities and multiple county jurisdictions and experienced firsthand differing interpretations of the same code depending on the inspector.

codes are written, but inspectors decide what is acceptable or not depending on their interpretation of what is written.

Travel often and safe
Vann
]]> Tue, 17 Jan 2023 09:55:20 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150662#150662 ELECTRIC ? : LA, this is what you said yesterday:"Few... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150661#150661 Author: offgrid
Subject: 15579
Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 8:20am


LA, this is what you said yesterday:

"Few codes are well written and most are loaded with ambiguity for inartfully chosen words". 

Today's version:

"....very few have succeeded in writing with perfect clarity.  Engineers and technical people are no more perfect than the rest of us."

While the former is both inaccurate and insulting, the latter is certainly true, so I'll happily accept that modification  to your previous  "inartfully chosen words".



]]> Tue, 17 Jan 2023 08:20:53 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150661#150661 ELECTRIC ? : Oh, please, OG, people have been... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150660#150660 Author: lostagain
Subject: 15579
Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 5:44am

Oh, please, OG, people have been trying to write rules for all of written human history and very few have succeeded in writing with perfect clarity.  Engineers and technical people are no more perfect than the rest of us.  Not to be religious, but they are no more infallible than the pope.  And, yes, when there is lack of clarity, it's the lawyers to whom people turn to fight over it.  ]]> Tue, 17 Jan 2023 05:44:46 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150660#150660 ELECTRIC ? : LA, of course the NEC is not in... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150658#150658 Author: offgrid
Subject: 15579
Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 4:33am

LA, of course the NEC is not in itself legally enforceable, the NFPA which administers it is a private entity with no legal standing. Enforcement lies with the AHJ in each community where it has been adopted. That entity has the final word.That's why they call it the authority having jurisdiction.  Anyone is free to call their AHJ anytime and ask for a waiver of whatever Code provision you want. Who knows, you might get lucky. 

Where it seems we don't agree is whether or not Article 334.40(b) itself is not clear regarding the use of NM cable splice products. It is. They can be used for repair or in an exposed location for new wiring, not for new wiring when concealed inside a wall.

BTW thanks for the insult to all the hard working people from industry, safety, science, engineering, contracting, and government who work hard and mostly thanklessly to filter, write and maintain the Code. I guess we need to add attorneys to the committees because without them we couldn't possibly write a proper English sentence. OTOH if we did add lawyers we'd never get anything done because they would argue with each other incessantly.

I think we've beaten this proverbial horse to death. We don't even know if Hogone's existing Romex will reach his new box location.
]]> Tue, 17 Jan 2023 04:33:42 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150658#150658 ELECTRIC ? : OG, let's leave it at simply... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150653#150653 Author: lostagain
Subject: 15579
Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 2:10pm

OG, let's leave it at simply saying we disagree.  I worked extensively with many so called prescriptive codes, especially elevators, and they are all subject to interpretation of the building officials, for better or worse, and some times before a court.  Few codes are well written and most are loaded with ambiguity for inartfully chosen words.  I still think it is worth a call to the local building inspector's office to see their local position.  If they say no, then don't do it.]]> Mon, 16 Jan 2023 14:10:31 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150653#150653 ELECTRIC ? : LA, once upon a time I was on... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150652#150652 Author: offgrid
Subject: 15579
Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 1:15pm

LA, once upon a time I was on one of the code review committees for the NEC, so I know how the process works.

First, understand that the NEC is a prescriptive code, meaning that it's not open to adjustment  or expansion based on logical arguments. It's not like the law, where you can make a logical argument based on interpretation of precedent, and maybe get that accepted in court. 

In this case the Code says that device can only be used for repairs. Nothing else. Just repairs.

If you want to add or change anything to the Code you have to make a submittal and wait till the next 3 year cycle for it to get reviewed. 

And the Code changed in the 2014 cycle to restrict the use of that device to just repairs. That wasn't random, something had to have gone wrong for that to happen, because there are guys on the committee representing the manufacturers who would have got that proposed change tossed out unless there was a good reason. 
Now all that being said, the AHJ does have the final word and can approve (or disapprove) what he wants. In my experience though, AHJs rarely knowingly approve something that is a Code violation. No benefit to them to take the risk. They very often miss things though...

Of course, if the work is being done without a permit, then the homeowner can choose to do what he likes (at the risk of being the defendant in a lawsuit if something goes awry later of course).  
]]> Mon, 16 Jan 2023 13:15:00 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150652#150652 ELECTRIC ? : I would take out the duplex box,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150647#150647 Author: GlueGuy
Subject: 15579
Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 11:36am

I would take out the duplex box, and replace it with an "old work" quad. Then just connect an ordinary outlet on the secondary side of the GFCI.]]> Mon, 16 Jan 2023 11:36:47 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150647#150647 ELECTRIC ? : It is allowed in existing buildings... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150643#150643 Author: lostagain
Subject: 15579
Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 10:11am

It is allowed in existing buildings in limited remodeling situations.  It would be worth checking with your local building department, if code compliance is a concern.  As for the safety issue, if it is safe to use for repairs, then it is probably safe to use in the kind of remodeling you propose.  A phone call to the local building department can save you a lot of headaches.]]> Mon, 16 Jan 2023 10:11:01 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150643#150643 ELECTRIC ? : 2014 NEC code cycle and onward... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150640#150640 Author: offgrid
Subject: 15579
Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 9:45am

2014 NEC code cycle and onward you can use that thing for repair work only, not new wiring, which this is. ]]> Mon, 16 Jan 2023 09:45:28 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150640#150640 ELECTRIC ? : The 2020 IECC seems to allow some... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150636#150636 Author: lostagain
Subject: 15579
Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 6:41am

The 2020 IECC seems to allow some limited splicing without a junction box, provided approved connectors are used.  Here is an article that describes these connections:  https://www.jadelearning.com/blog/splicing-nm-cable-in-walls-and-other-concealed-spaces/  But, be sure to check local codes which may still prohibit these splicing systems.]]> Mon, 16 Jan 2023 06:41:35 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150636#150636 ELECTRIC ? : Yes you can. But you can't... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150629#150629 Author: offgrid
Subject: 15579
Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 2:44am

Yes you can. But you can't simply remove the existing single gang box unless you have access to run new Romex from wherever it's coming to that box from, or reach you new box location with the existing wire. Anywhere you make a connection you need to have an accessible junction box, you can't conceal the junction behind the drywall.


]]> Mon, 16 Jan 2023 02:44:06 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150629#150629 ELECTRIC ? : thanks vann. thats what I thought.... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150622#150622 Author: hogone
Subject: 15579
Posted: 15 Jan 2023 at 4:22pm

thanks vann.  thats what I thought.  jon]]> Sun, 15 Jan 2023 16:22:05 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150622#150622 ELECTRIC ? : Not a licensed electrician, but... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150620#150620 Author: Pod People
Subject: 15579
Posted: 15 Jan 2023 at 3:44pm

Not a licensed electrician, but I think it is the same scenario as the pod-one GFIC outlet in the circuit is enough.  simply wire the second outlet in series with the existing gfic outlet and it will be protected the same.
Travel safe and often
Vann

]]> Sun, 15 Jan 2023 15:44:19 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150620#150620 ELECTRIC ? : good day all. completely a non-pod... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150617#150617 Author: hogone
Subject: 15579
Posted: 15 Jan 2023 at 1:57pm

good day all.  completely a non-pod question; actually a home ?.  i have done some minor electrical stuff in my days, but by no means an engineer!! i am remodeling our master bathroom and need to move the gfi outlet.  at present, it is a two outlet as i am assuming most are.  pam would like 4 outlets,  so my question is can you wire 2 of them together and next to eachother?  hope that makes sense.  jon]]> Sun, 15 Jan 2023 13:57:15 +0000 http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15579&PID=150617#150617