If you have the same inverter I do, then if the EMS kills shore power you would have to switch the inverter on...I don't believe it's automatic.  The battery won't last too terribly long if you're powering more than the lights and low-amp 120-volt items.  Using the hair dryer and coffee maker will be an issue.

If you're worried about low-voltage scenarios I would look at the autoformer option, which as I mentioned above just came in very handy when we encountered a low-voltage situation for the first time.

Thanks offgrid,

I'm totally with you now.  If the grid power goes low, the EMS will kill the power to the pod, but life in the pod goes on (other than AC & Microwave) thanks to the Inverter's ATS.

And I've got all winter to look for an EMS   ... dang, winters coming...

Well, we just returned from a 10-day trip and for the first time our Hughes Autoformer saved our bacon.  We stayed at a KOA that had a low-voltage problem due to someone knocking over a power pedestal and effectively shutting down half the electric grid.  When I plugged in the autoformer the "Boosting" light came on for the first time ever.  Guy across from us (a relative newbie) came over and asked us why his Watchdog was indicating 106 volts, and I told him there was obviously an issue (didn't know at the time what had happened).

He talked to management, got his money back, unplugged from power, and moved on the next morning.

Bottom line:  The autoformer (which has surge protection and also warns of open neutrals and grounding issues) is a great first line of defense.  I understand that some folks also attach a power watchdog after the autoformer.

Originally posted by gpokluda I would suggest the Autoformer Power Watchdog. We picked it based on positive reviews and because it also has Emergency Power Off (EPO).

Thanks, I'll have a look at that one.

Great analysis.  Thanks.

Of course its not going to augment the grid power from the battery in a brown out situation, not sure what I was thinking there. (Its not a UPS)  I haven't found anything in the manual on how low the grid power needs to go before the ATS flips it over to battery.

Under Inverter Operation - "The WF-5110RS Inverter is equipped with an internal transfer switch to automatically route either the incoming AC power or inverter produced AC voltage through to the output."

And  "When incoming AC power is not available, and the Power Push button is in the ON position, the inverter will produce AC voltage at the output."

These seem to be the other relevant specs:

Going back to the original issue of the thread (and resurrecting it), we just upgraded from a 2011 RP177 to a 2021 RP195 and it came with solar installed and the 1000W inverter. 

Anybody have any thoughts on if we should be fronting shore power with a Surge suppressor and if so, which one?  Reading the inverter manual, I think it will take care of brown outs (and therefore no need for EMS), but I'm wondering if we need to protect the Inverter from spikes.

The current output of solar cells/modules that is linear with solar irradiance (photons to electrons) is the short circuit current (Isc) or current at zero voltage. If the fill factor (how close to square the current-voltage curve of the module is) is poor then the current at max power (Imp) around 17V for our 12V modules can drop off significantly from Isc. Good modules will have a nice flat upper horizontal part of the IV curve with very little drop off.

So if your SunWize modules had issues (like mismatched or broken cells or interconnects) then you could have a significant drop off in Imp at partial sun levels. Having multiple mismatched modules in series can make this worse too. The SunWize array was also probably not performing very well at full sun, it was just not as noticeable.  But for new modules at 12V in our little systems it's not something we need to really worry about. 

The purpose of a lot of marketing is to instill fear of making a mistake into consumers. This is especially true for relatively mature commodity type products, like say flashlight batteries or solar modules. There is really little difference between them so the companies' marketing folks try to come up with stuff to make you afraid to buy the other guy's product. Since they all do that the consumer often winds up confused and afraid of buying anything which hurts everyone's sales. 

Thank you for the clarification. The trick of horizontal on cloudy days is good to know. Also, that is a good explanation of why some are positive ground. I still don't know how one of these positive grounded setups (which are much less expensive in the price comparisons I was doing on Amazon) would work with the RPod. Would it even matter as long as the correct polarity is observed when connecting the charge controller's wiring to the battery (whether direct or through the solar port)?

I just got to thinking though. This has drifted from the original topic. It is, however, very good information for anyone wishing to do a solar setup. It would be nice if the solar related posts could be moved to their own topic and pinned.

Sorry to give the impression that you have to have full sun to get output from a PV module. Being a professional in this technology I tend to gloss over things sometimes.  The topic I was adressing was differences between the various solar module manufacturer's low light performance, which is negligible. 

The output current of solar modules is essentially linear with solar irradiance.  If you have a very cloudy day you might get about 10% of one sun. A day with high cirrus cloud cover might be 50-80%. So under very cloudy conditions a solar module will produce about 10% of the current that it produces under full sun conditions. That is because one photon of sunlight produces one electron-hole pair in the silicon which the solar cell is fabricated from. Nothing you can do about that, you can't collect energy that isn't there. 

One trick you can do on a very cloudy day is lay the module horizontally rather than point it towards the sun. if you can't tell where the sun is the module can't either so its better to lay it flat so it can collect sunlight scattered around the whole sky by the clouds.  

Re the positive vs. negative ground issue, I think you are perhaps referring to the surface polarization problem Sunpower's early products had in high voltage negtive grounded grid tie applications. The module frames must be grounded on these large high voltage systems for safety and when you do that it imposes an electric field between the glass surface and the top surface of the solar cells. In Sunpower's case they depended on what is effectively a static charge on the front cell surface to achieve their really high cell efficiencies and the electric field from negative grounding bled that off. Sunpower is far from being a cheap product though. Other manufacturer's might have had this issue too but I haven't heard about it. 

The surface passivation issue wouldn't effect our little 12V systems because the voltage is so low and we're not grounding the frames on these portable modules anyway. Besides, Sunpower doen't make their products the same way now as they did in the 00's so its no longer a problem for them even in high voltage negatively grounded systems. That doesn't stop other companies' marketing ppl from making stuff up of course... (disclaimer, I've never worked for Sunpower or owned their stock )

I'm not sure about that. Cloudy bright still has a good number of photons, just not as many as full sunlight. I have read enough reviews of solar panels from people who have stated that they do perform in non-direct sunlight situations, just not as well. It isn't a total binary situation where it either has full sunlight and works or it does not have full sunlight and does not work. If one can place the panel(s) in full sunlight, that is best. Sometimes, one has no choice as full, direct sunlight is not available. In that case, one takes what one can get. I agree though that one should not be swayed by marketing hype.

Also, watch out for some of the lower-priced panels. In the specifications, they state that they are made for a positive ground (or common positive) situation. The RPods are wired for negative ground (common negative). The Renogy one I just ordered is negative ground so it will work without issue.

Not really. That is marketing hype.  If the photons aren't there you don't get the electrons, just basic quantum physics.  Don't pay more for a solar module because it has "better low light performance".  Put the solar module in full sun, even partial shade on a single cell will kill the output current because the cells are all in series.

You could use the converter. The down side is that the charging profile is wrong. You will not fully charge the LiFePO4 battery. If yours is the WFCO 8955 unit, you can swap out the converter section with the WF-8950L2-MBA which is made for LiFePO4 batteries. That is what I did.

It depends. The two 6V batteries I had were 215AH. If I limited the draw to no less than 50%, that was 107.5AH. I replaced the two 6V batteries with one 100AH battery. Since the LiFePO4 battery can be drawn down much further, it should give me almost as much usable power. This also is at a fraction of the weight.

Again, it depends on what your power needs are. 20AH would be quite inadequate. 50AH would be like replacing one 12V battery. 100AH would be roughly equivalent to the two 6V batteries in usable capacity. I consider 100AH a baseline amount.

I just ordered this one: Renogy Eclipse 100W 12V Folding Solar Panel. It should be adequate. I will be able to say more about it after I get it and have a chance to use it.

Shade does not help. Having a portable one that can be moved to take advantage of sun is helpful, but if you are in deep shade, it won't help. Full sunlight is needed to be able to use the full capacity of any solar panel. Some will do better in partial sunlight or cloudy bright days, but full sun is best. That is why I got a portable unit that I can move. As I said, I will be able to speak more about it after the one I just ordered arrives and I gain experience with it.

If you want to see my LiFePO4 installation, I wrote it up in my mods (see link in signature).

2) Depends on the size of each. You can go by amp-hours or watt-hours to compare.

3) a 100AH lithium is "roughly" equal to 200 AH lead-acid. This is a rule of thumb, not exact, but is close enough for guvmint work.

4) For many people a 100 watt solar panel is more than enough. If you use more than average electricity, you may want larger. It's probably a good place to start to see how it works for you.

5) Solar generally won't work in the shade. That is an over-simplification, but you would typically want to place your solar panels in direct sun if at all possible.

Hello all,

 With the nice weather we've had I'm starting to think spring and changes I want to make to our POD. Solar is all greek to me so reading everything on controllers, lithium batteries, two 6v vs one 12v lithium Im confused. Our situation is we have an older POD. I currently need a new battery and would like to upgrade the battery and add solar for extended stays so I have a few questions:

1. Using the original converter in the camper is there a problem upgrading to a life04 lithium battery. any problems charging with old technology converter?

2. Does one 12volt lithium  equal two 6volt batteries in series?

3. How large of lithium battery would be sufficient? 20Ah, 50Ah or 100Ah?

4. I'm interested in the portability and packing/storing of a suitcase solar array. Is 100watt solar panel large enough to maintain charge boon docking?

5. I camp in the forests of Pennsylvania, maryland and NewYork. Is solar a worthwhile investment or does  the shaded campsites make solar impractical? Is anyone from the same area using solar and what is your experience?

Thanks in advance for responding.

It really isn't hard to install a 12V outlet. If your antenna booster or stereo is near the TV, then you can tap into the 12V there. You will need to see if there is sufficient open space behind the panel to mount a 12V outlet. Something like this will work:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B015CKXU7W/ .

Or, you could install one like this one and get multiple functions from one connection:

Either one connects easily and since there are only two wires (positive and negative) and neither is of such a voltage that could hurt or kill you, it is safe to do.

Problem is I don't have any 12v outlets as it turns out.

Maybe I'll get one of these: