I don't know where the idea comes from that replacing the batteries in a hybrid is expensive, its not. I can replace the battery in my Prius for less than what your dealer is telling you the cost in the Ram is. Assuming I ever have to replace the whole thing. Most people get well over 200k miles out of theirs, and then usually its only a couple of cells that go bad. Its only a 1.5kwh battery after all. 

The drivetrain itself is bulletproof, the electric motors (there are 2) are integrated into the planetary drive to create a continuously variable transmission that never changes gears and babies the gas engine, so it also lasts for a really long time. Depending on how each of the motors' field coils are supplied they can act in forward, reverse, as motors, as generators, or both.   Truly an awesome piece of tech, take a look on youtube for an explanation of how it works sometime. There's a reason that most of the taxis you see today are Prii, those guys regularly get 400k miles out of them without overhauls or battery replacements. 

Full ev batteries would cost a lot more to replace because they're much larger, but they're Li Ion and last forever, as long as they are actively cooled and heated, like in the Volt, Bolt, and Tesla. The Nissan leaf gave evs a bad rep originally because in their rush to be first to market they didn't put in effective temp management and had some failures in AZ and other hot places. Even if you have to replace your ev batteries you can buy used ones from a salvage place, the cars are wrecking out a lot faster than they're failing mechanically so there are plenty available. 

One of my buds has a Nissan Leaf. His commute to work is only 5 or 6 miles, so the round trip to/from work is a no-brainer for it. He plugs it overnight, so he never goes to a gas station. He got it on a promotional lease, and it costs $80/month. Less than a basic mobile phone plan. When the commute backs up into a parking lot, it sits there silently burning no fuel at all.

I have to believe that his situation is not all that unusual.

For pickups its not there yet. There is an aftermarket company that modifies F150's and 250's to be hybrids/plug in hybrids for fleet use. And apparently the 2019 Ram 1500 comes standard with "mild hybrid" technology. Mostly a fast start/stop feature but there is also a little regen braking.  It's a start. 

offgrid, never said I would circumvent pollution controls on late model diesel trucks by doing a "delete" with eliminating the ERG, DEF, ect. I can't control what other people do to improve reliability and fuel economy on their trucks. Its just that whether we like what they do or not its just the way it is now. Hopefully someday in the very near future engineers will design diesel engines that make doing modifications like that a thing of the past.

Glueguy, your vision of the future with electric powered vehicles might be absolutely right as motor and battery technology continue to improve. There very well maybe a day when you see locomotives and semi trucks, along with your family truck and car, all powered by electric motors. Although I think were still at least a generation away from this technology but who knows what around the corner? The torque from an electric motor is awesome which is why the newest locomotive engines use AC traction motors and the older models DC motors.

Now back to the original question I asked which if you had to choose one of the big three automakers who makes the best diesel powered truck? Is it the Powerstroke by Ford, Duramax of Chevy, or Dodges Cumming or new Eco-diesel? I know not allot of our T.V. ares diesel powered but I'm sure there are allot of my fellow forum users here that have a world more of experience then I have with diesel trucks. So I'm interested in hearing what is your opinion and why?  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii98Vb5KdIA

Originally posted by StephenH From what I understand, the Ford Ecoboost engines have some of the same features (such as more and sturdier bearings) of Diesel engines, and should be very durable. Unfortunately, when we had our accident and had to replace our Escape with a Frontier, I lost the Ecoboost engine, so can't verify the longevity of it. The downside of the Ecoboost is the need to run premium gasoline which, in many of the places we were traveling, was more expensive than Diesel fuel. That would swing the equation in favor of Diesel for me. However, the price of a new one is way beyond my capability at this time.

If you compare the horsepower/torque of the 2.7L EcoBoost to the slightly larger 3L diesel that just came out, the gasser wins in horsepower, and is only slightly less in the torque department. If you compare the torque curves, I'm willing to bet the EcoBoost wins the torque equation for most of the usable RPM range (pretty sure the EcoBoost has better torque at the low end).

Long, long term I still think electric, in some form or fashion will kill both the diesels and the gassers. The latest drive units from Tesla are designed to last a million miles, and they produce maximum torque from zero RPM. That's hard to beat. Today's Lithium batteries are head and shoulders above any previous battery technology, and I'm hopeful we will solve their problems in the next decade or so; with who knows what chemistry.

But diesel engines thermodynamically are more efficient than gassers, for two reasons, maybe more. They run higher compression ratios and they don't have throttle plates. This is over and above any benefit from fuel energy density. If they weren't more efficient long haul truckers wouldn't use them.

Everything else being equal they would beat gas engines. But as you say, things aren't equal, at least not yet, and the emissions cheating is for sure a big setback. 

You may not want to rain on diesel's parade, but I will. First, there is no question that diesel is more efficient on an MPG basis; mainly because of the aforementioned higher energy value per unit volume.

However, the caveats are numerous. First a diesel version of most vehicles that have the option is a ~~ $5,000 premium to start. Second, diesel fuel costs 15-20% more than gasoline (at least it does around here). Third maintenance on diesels is typically much higher; the amount varies by region and vehicle. Fourth, even with the latest, greatest emissions, there is considerable debate about that being effective.

And then finally, there is the issue of "emissions cheating", which seems to be rampant in Europe. Sure, VW got caught, but based on what I've been reading, they are not the only ones; especially in Europe.

If you can get a killer deal like Jholler, it changes the equation quite a lot, so I'm not discounting something like that.

The 2018 4x2 Ram 1500 3.5L gasser is rated at 25 mpg highway, the same truck with the 3.0 Ecodiesel is at 27 mpg. That's about an 8% difference so you're actually behind with the diesel on that score.  I'm not doubting DavMar's personal comparison but you really have to use a standardized test to make a true comparison, and you know for sure that Dodge is going to work hard to tune each of their drivetrain combos to optimize results on those tests. The 5.7l hemi got 21 mpg highway, so the diesel beats that hands down,  but no one buys a hemi for fuel efficiency, right?  

Then there is the reliability question combined with the current emissions standards. You'd think that of all the diesel experience and money VW has that they would be on top of that but look what happened to them. I think ultimately the manufacturers will get that sorted and at that point diesels will probably be the way to go for pulling heavier loads longer distances, because fundamentally the engines can be more efficient than gassers.  But we're not there yet or at least it hasn't been proven yet by years of actual usage. 

Personally I can't afford to be a beta tester. I loved the hybrid concept from the first time I heard about it in the 90's, but I waited until the gen 3 Prius came out in 2010, 10 years after the first introduction before I bought one. Fantastic car, does everything you'd ever want it to do, super reliably and super efficient. But it won't tow an rPod...

And sorry but I very much disagree with deleting emissions equipment from vehicles, especially diesels. If you want to know what happens if everyone did that just spend a few weeks in a city in India like I did last year. Everyone drives diesels there because the fuel is subsidized and there are no emissions regs on them. You literally can't breath the air most days.  i basically stayed inside as much as possible to avoid the fine particle diesel pollution there, which is extremely hazardous. 

Just my $0.02. 

 

The 3.0L V6 diesel engines used by Chrysler are built by VM Motari, Italy. They have been making diesels for a long time. 

Originally posted by Jholler Traded yesterday. Let the 2010 ram 2500 with the hemi and 10mpg go for a 2014 ram 1500 with the 3.0 ecodiesel and 50k miles of power train warranty left. I'm averaging 23mpg in town, almost 30 on the highway. (Those numbers are for empty, no trailer on both trucks). Side by side comparison accounting for mileage and cost of fuel (I ran 89oct in the hemi) predicts $2000+ savings in fuel per year. MUCH smoother ride too, lol.

Congrats! Pardon my ignorance but is that a Cummings motor, how many hp? Hope it gives you many trouble free motoring miles.

That sounds great!  enjoy it. 

Originally posted by DavMar Interesting thread and its sparked an interest in me learning more about diesel motors that were used in buses and RV's such as the old Cat 3028 and Detroit Diesel's 6V92 and 8v92. Though what has really caught my interest and completely confuses me is what is the best late model diesel pickup truck sold today? Fords Power Stroke, Chevy Duramax, or the Dodge Cummings and what size engine? Now I don't want to start a flame war but it seems we have some members here that are much more knowledgeable then I that can enlighten me and we can have a informed discussion. So what's your opinion as to the best truck and why?

Those are all good these days. The early GM diesels were "converted" gas engines that did not last long because of the aforementioned issues with the weak lower end (crank/connecting rods/pistons) that they grew out of. I believe those issues have all been worked out. I have yet to see a "bad Cummins".

That said, I think diesel is headed for a long, slow decline in popularity. After the VW (and other Mfgs) "cheating" scandals, it's clear that diesel fuel has a big problem in the long term. Perhaps not as bad as coal, but not far behind. One of the issues is sulfur content of diesel (note that most US diesels aren't sold in Mexico because of their high sulfur content diesel fuel). Mexico may eventually fix that issue, but I think the handwriting is on the wall long term.

Does diesel have 5, 10, or 15 years? I don't know. I think 15 years is probably as good a guess as any, but I'm not placing any bets.

Originally posted by ToolmanJohn  Diesel can't be justified on fuel economy alone. Especially if it's going to be the daily driver as well. A diesel holds the advantage for towing because of the high torque output at lower RPM's. This is why they last a long time and get decent fuel economy. If a gas engine was also kept at low RPM's it would get good fuel economy. Fewer RPM's, less fuel used.

Part of the reason for diesel engine longevity is because of the crank/connecting rod/piston fortification required to deal with the rather high compression ratios used in diesel engines. If you look closely at the Ford EcoBoost engines, you will note that they have been "beefed up" in those areas. Of particular note is that they use 6-bolt main journals. 2-bolt are "standard" in gas engines, and 4 are "performance" modifications, 6 are almost unheard of in a gas engine. You will find that 4-bolt are common in diesel, with higher-end diesels sometimes have 6-bolt. You will also note that EcoBoost (turbo charged gas engines) produce almost 100% of their torque at only 2000 RPM, and are producing 90% of max at only 1700 RPM. That torque curve is virtually flat all the way to redline.That used to be diesel territory, but is one reason why EcoBoost engines are so great for towing.

 Modern diesels have many more sophisticated components that might fail compared to older diesel designs. Piezo Injectors, EGR Valves (Exhaust Gas Recirculation), Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF), Urea Injection- Diesel Emissions Fluid (DEF), all are somewhat modern technologies used for emissions. These are the problem areas for modern diesels. 

 That said, I really like my diesel SUV. There's nothing else like it, 4 doors, storage, AWD, AISIN 8 speed, strong engine, good towing, good fuel economy, and so far, not too many issues:

Water pump leak - warranty (6 hours)

AdBlue Tank Heater- Warranty, then again replaced under warranty with a new heater design (3 hours)

Oil Leak Front crankshaft seal - warranty (3 hours)

Brakes Replaces (76,XXX miles)- Only $600 for OE rotors and pads and sensors, self installed

Still have a couple years warranty left on powertrain. Hoping to see 10 years of service until deciding on replacement or just semi-retiring the SUV, and buying a small daily driver, keeping the SUV for towing duties and winter snow driving.

I purchased trucks for a company years ago and an engineer developed a formula to help decide if diesel was the right choice.  These were 3/4 on pickups that made deliveries and pickups within a 200 mile radius.  No trailer pulling.  The main decision point was miles driven per year.  If it exceeded 50,000 then diesel was the choice.  They were traded every five years.

This is far different duty that my personal truck.  If there was less up front premium with a diesel I would like one, but I am not sure I could build the economic justification.