tongue weight
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Forum Name: Miscellaneous / Off-topic
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9363
Printed Date: 30 Apr 2024 at 10:56pm
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Topic: tongue weight
Posted By: osage
Subject: tongue weight
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 4:54pm
| is the listed tongue weight on the pods dry or wet? |
Replies:
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 5:18pm
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Osage, my opinion dry, they have no idea what you will place on the tongue or in the Pod. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: Leo B
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 6:38pm
|
Ditto
------------- Leo & Melissa Bachand 2017 Ford F150 2021 Vista Cruiser 19 csk Previously owned 2015 Rpod 179 2010 Rpod 171 |
Posted By: osage
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 7:06pm
| that's what I though. so if you a a full propane tank 35# battery 20# 5 gal water 40# and the empty tongue weight is 275 # that all equals 370 #'s which is more than the avg. of the 350 # hitch on most hitches on tv |
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 7:29pm
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Subtract the 40# water weight. On our 177 the FW tank is located behind the axle so in essence you will be subtracting all your water weight off the tongue.
------------- God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
Posted By: marwayne
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 7:32pm
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I don't know what kind of battery you have, but mine are 70# each.
------------- If you want something done right, do it yourself. 2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd. |
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 7:35pm
|
The full weight of what you put on the tongue does NOT show up as tongue weight. It's a lever, the farther from the ball, the smaller the percentage actually transferred.
Our Pod had dual 6v batteries, dual propane tanks, and an electric jack. WEIGHED, not guessed, tongue weight was 360 ready to camp. ------------- |
Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 11:22am
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I believe that if you put counter weight behind the axle, that will lessen the tongue weight also. So putting things like your tool box, r dome, anything with weight behind the axle, and only clothing and light items in front of the axle helps as well. You can actually put a weight scale under your jack and see what it weighs if your scale goes high enough. Then see what it weighs when you rearrange weight. Its a thought. ------------- 2017.5 Rp-172 2020 R-pod 195 2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl I'll be rpodding |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 11:39am
|
Here is a process to get tongue weight with a standard bath scale: To do this, you'll need a two-by-four cut to a five- or six-foot (1.5- or 1.8-meter) length, two pipes, your bathroom scale, and a brick. Lay one of the pipes across the scale and the other across the brick. Position the scale and the brick so the pipes are exactly three feet apart. Now, lay the two-by-four across the pipes, and find a suitable way to support the tongue of the trailer at the same height as the tow vehicle's hitch ball. Place the tongue (and hitch-height support) on the two-by-four exactly 2 feet (0.6 meters) away from the pipe lying across the scale and 1 foot (0.3 meters) away from the pipe lying across the brick. Read the weight displayed on the scale, and then multiply the weight by three. This is your tongue weight. As posted, you can adjust the weight of the cargo forward or rearward of the trailer axle to reach your target tongue weight. Just watch the scale -- and don't forget to multiply the displayed weight by three. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 4:52pm
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holy cow!! lol. if you could put that in book form, with photos, and let me know when its available on amazon id appreciate it lol. thanks honestly, i had no idea it was that involved ------------- 2017.5 Rp-172 2020 R-pod 195 2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl I'll be rpodding |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 5:43pm
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I tried it, it works, somebody's darn theorem. Love to post a photo but we know how that goes, I put my generator on the A frame mount a couple of days ago so I need to do again, BTW I used 1 1/2 pipe to be compatible with 2X4. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 8:58pm
|
mcarter, you must be an engineer! ------------- God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
Posted By: Happy Tripping
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 7:35am
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This is very nice. I assume the brick is so that it's reasonably level with the bathroom scale, but why not use a foot-long 2X2 or 2X4 rather than a pipe? |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 10:19am
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Good question, my only guess is the pipe distributes weight more exactly that the wider 2X4 would and has more strength than a 2X2. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 12:11pm
|
The idea of the pipe is to provide a sharp edge so you know exactly where contact is made. You can get the same effect by slicing a 6" length of 2x2 lengthwise at a 45 degree angle yielding two 6" lengths with triangular cross sections. Place one each on the scale and brick with the wide sides down so you have two edges pointing up. That provides very accurate points to measure your 1 and 2 feet. A bit more trouble but it eliminates the rolling pipe problem.
------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 2:11pm
|
Thanks Charlie, makes sense. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 4:22pm
| Would steel angle iron work as well, or is the Pod too heavy? |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 4:50pm
|
Bum,
I think yes, I used pipe because I had pipe, I think Charlie has a good point but I didn't want to "cut wood". I used what I had. The process is the same and allows you to use a bathroom scale. You can't put some wimpy angle iron under it, but that's common sense and we have that. I like pipe because it has many uses, wood seems to have one purpose once it's cut. To me. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 5:56pm
| I think the theory is based on torque. With the brick defined as the pivot point, the torque of the system would be the weight of the tongue (W lbs) times the distance from the tongue weight to the brick, or W ft-lbs. The torque along all points of the 2x4 must be the same, so at triple the distance, the weight to get the same torque would be 1/3 W. |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 6:33pm
|
I agree Bum, doesn't appear I am the only engineer on this forum:) ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 6:37pm
Yes angle iron will work. Even aluminum (aluminium?  ) will work if stout enough. The important part is only a thin knife edge contact perpendicular to the 2x4. BTW, there are lots of us engineer types hangin' around.
------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 7:54pm
|
Okay, I have a question. What is the best way to place the scale and brick to weigh the R-Pod? I tried it using blocks to elevate the scale and wood platform on which I used angle iron to support my beam and placed it directly under the socket where the hitch ball goes. I've also seen it where people leave the scale on the ground and set the jack's foot down on the beam. Given that the foot is behind the hitch socket, there is probably a slight inaccuracy introduced by using the jack foot, but is it significant enough to make the weight too inaccurate to use?
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 9:25pm
|
OK. We're really down in the weeds now. The difference between measured weight at the jack vs at
the ball is small compared to the variances expected with other
variables such as water in the tanks, propane in the bottles, bikes on
the bumper and other stuff in the trailer, but here's the math. If P = the weight measured at the jack, L = the distance from the jack to the axle, and M = the distance from the jack to the ball then the true weight W at the ball is; W=PL/(L+M) For example if P=300#, L=(14'x12)=168" and M=9" then: W=300x168/(168+9)=300x168/177=285#. That's about 5% which is well within the accuracy of the method and other variables listed above so measure at either point, call it a day, and enjoy your camper. Camp on! ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 10:13pm
Thanks. So, if I understand the formula right, as long as the weight at the jack foot is under the hitch weight limit, the actual weight is okay since the actual weight is a smidge less than the weight at the jack. Thanks. I'll take the easy way out and use the jack leg and keep the scale at ground level. 
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 11:01pm
You are correct. Take the easy way out. I have used this method:
------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 7:10am
|
Charlie. (Using your method which I like) The weight you record on the scale is the actual tongue weight correct? That being so, I don't know if my bathroom scale is meant to handle 300 + lbs or am I missing something here. Here I am looking at something simple and trying to make it complicated. ------------- God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 7:46am
Not quite. The weight you measure at the jack is slightly less than the actual weight at the ball but it will be close enough. Depending on the length of you trailer the difference is only a few percent but you can calculate the exact tongue weight as I described earlier in this thread. Note that the actual weight will vary from trip to trip due to variances I listed. If your scale cannot measure more than 300#, and most can’t, you can use the 2x4 and brick method described by Mike Carter (mcarter) earlier in this thread. Using that trick under the jack you will be pretty close to the actual tongue weight at the instant you make the measurement. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 8:51am
|
Okay, I'm a bit confused. In your example above, the weight at the jack (P) was 300 lbs. The result of your formula (W) was 285 lbs. Did you mean the weight at the ball will be slightly less than at the jack?
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 9:52am
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The easy way.. LOL Sherline tongue scale.   ------------- |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 10:06am
|
Those scales are about twice the price I want to pay. I picked up a digital scale at my local Re-Store for a couple of bucks. Add to that a couple of bucks for materials, and I will use that for a whole lot less than the $137.95 and up price of the Sherline and other brand models. I keep looking at my local for sale advertisements to see if I can pick up a used one, but no luck so far. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 11:43am
Correct. Further from the axle. The pivot point (fulcrum) is the axle to which everything is referenced. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 11:53am
|
I would very interested in knowing what some of you are getting for tongue weight, I plan on checking mine later today. Right now I have a single propane tank, single battery and my gen set mounted on an a-frame rack. I have NOT checked it with the gen set mounted. I have a 400 lb scale I bought at WalMart. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 2:30pm
It goes back to the torque argument. To rephrase what Charlie said, the further the distance from the pivot point, the lower the force needed to maintain equilibrium. And, yes, I do have an engineering degree, but electrical and not mechanical/civil. I learned most of my mechanical physics from building and flying RC helicopters. Torque is a very big deal in that application. |
Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 3:05pm
That was my thought exactly. your first statement, the weight is slightly less at the ball, than at the jack i believe is accurate. As you get further away from the fulcrum (the axle) the tongue would get lighter and lighter. Its the " give me a lever long enough and i'll move the world" scenario. ------------- 2017.5 Rp-172 2020 R-pod 195 2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl I'll be rpodding |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 3:18pm
|
Charlie,
Correct me if I am wrong, when you do tongue weight you want to be as close to possible to your tow height. All a teeter/totter theory. BTW - Enjoyed the engineer dialogue, haven't done that since I retired, except with myself. Maybe we should start a little engineering group, only kidding. Still would be interested in what you all are getting for a tongue weight. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 7:55pm
|
Unfortunately, I will be unable to get a good reading until after our 'Pod is repaired. The heaviest item, our dual-6V batteries, has been removed in preparation for it to go to the factory. A number of other mods have also been removed, and it is emptied out of almost everything movable. The last time I tried was when I had everything, including the Stromberg-Carlson Trailer Tray and generator in addition to a full tank of water. The tongue weight was around 450 lbs. Now that we have the truck, there will be no need to carry the generator on the trailer tongue so I will likely consider not reinstalling the rack. I might find it useful for other things though. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 8:15pm
Correct. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: Grandpa Hiker
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 3:54am
|
Here is a link to a site with photos on how to make the tongue weight scale. I drilled holes through the pipes & screwed them into the beam so I do not have to be concerned about the pipes rolling out of place. http://hildstrom.com/projects/tonguescale/ - http://hildstrom.com/projects/tonguescale/ ------------- Rob & Becky 2014 Ford Explorer 3.5 SOHC V6 2015 R-179 Pod aka Piddle Pod "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass, it is about learning to dance in the rain!!" |
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 6:51am
|
Thank you Grandpa Hiker. Once all the snow melts and I can get to my 177 I will see what the tongue weight is. Great pictures! Indeed, worth a thousand words.
------------- God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
Posted By: ToolmanJohn
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 6:58am
Get a cheap 350-400 pound bathroom scale (yes, they're out there). Block/chock those wheels!! Connect to your tow vehicle, place the trailer coupler on the ball and lift the jack off the ground. Put the scale under the jack, raise the tongue with the jack centered on the scale. You will know right away if you have exceeded 350 pounds. Or if you are under 350 pounds. No need to know EXACTLY in this case. ------------- 2017 ATC 7X20 Custom Toy Hauler 2013 R-Pod 177 (SOLD) 2013 VW Touareg TDI |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 8:16am
|
I did find a 400 lb scale at Walmart for about $26. I checked yesterday with an assumed hitch height of 15", mine was 377 lbs. One 12 volt battery, electric jack, one full propane bottle, Stromberg Carlson A Frame Rack and my Generac IX 2000 gen set.
BTW - the picture addition was a great find. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |