WDH hitch and unibody frame concern and questions.
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Topic: WDH hitch and unibody frame concern and questions.
Posted By: JET
Subject: WDH hitch and unibody frame concern and questions.
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 9:20am
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Hi Everyone I know that this subject of weight distribution hitches has been discussed quite a bit in this forum. I just last night by accident ran into an article about WDH’s and unibody frame vehicles. I have a 2009 Toyota Highlander 4x4 V6 with factory tow, rated at 5,000 lbs tow. I just bought a new Rpod 178. When getting the Highlander ready to tow I was introduced to the concept of a WDH and thought to error on the side of caution and had a Husky WDH installed with the friction sway bar. So far I have only towed the vehicle about 45 miles, primarily from the selling dealer to my house. I am planning a trip from my home in southern Oregon to Joshua Tree in less then 2 weeks which is about 820 miles one way. Last night while online I accidentally came across a discussion of WDH’s and unibody frame vehicles, and potential for unibody frame damage using a WDH. I spent hours reading various articles about WDH’s and unibody frame vehicles getting information from one end of the spectrum to the other. Up until last night I was totally unaware that there was any concern about WDH’s and unibody tow vehicles and frame damage. I was unnerved at the prospects of damaging my unibody frame on my Highlander by using one. There is no definitive answer from anyone including Toyota Corporation. There seems to be numerous places where you can find answers that range from you don’t need it...to it can damage a unibody frame….to the opinion they are a good ideal. I did not find anywhere where anyone actually reported frame damage in their experience. I would really like to have this confusion in my mind somewhat resolved before I leave on my trip. I have not driven my vehicle hooked to the Rpod without the WDH to see how it does, but if it does not harm anything would feel better having the WDH and sway bar.
It also seems to make a difference to some in how they answer the question of the WDH as to how close you are to the maximum weight and tongue weight you are in your combination. I have a 5,000lb rating and a 2600 lb trailer (dry), so some people think don’t bother.
I guess for me the key question is not necessarily do I “need” it but rather is there really any potential danger in damaging the unibody frame using the WDH on my Highlander. I read that some years of Honda Pilots state in their owner’s manual to NOT use a WDH because of frame concerns by Honda and the unibody frame. I also read that representatives from Toyota itself contradict each other in the answer, where a Toyota representative in Canada said NO do not use it as it could cause unibody frame damage on the Highlander and a representative in the USA said that they officially did not say no, but I guess later changed his tune when confronted with the Toyota Canada answer. I am not sure what the latest official Toyota response is in regard to this and the Highlander or other of their unibody vehicles.
I am really confused as to how to proceed with what to do in this regard. I was wondering if there is any new information about this and what the groups thoughts are in this regard, especially those towing Rpods with Highlanders and other unibody frame vehicles with and without WDH hitch set ups.
I guess the bottom line that needs to be answered is simply whether a WDH could damage a unibody frame, or in my case a Highlander frame.
John
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Replies:
Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 9:53am
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I don't know the answer to your question, but in my opinion and in my experience, a WDH on a vehicle with a 5000 lb tow capacity and a 3500 lb trailer is of very questionable necessity. I wouldn't argue with the wisdom of sway control, although for me, it never seemed necessary. Of course the argument is that you don't need it until you need it and then you dam well better have it. You can do sway control without a WDH. You are right to be concerned about the WDH with your unibody construction. It might be fine 99% of the time, but without a solid answer, I think I'd skip it. A WDH, by design, puts a good bit of stress on the frame, and, also by design, unibody frames aren't as strong as body-on-frame frames. Unibody frames are meant to crumple under stress. On the face of it, in my very uneducated sense of this, WDHs and unibody frames don't seem to go together well. Be cautious of any opinions you read on the internet though! TT ------------- 2010 176 FJ Cruiser |
Posted By: JET
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 10:44am
| Thanks for your input.I appreciate it. |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 10:55am
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My personal experience is based on the 2016 Ford Escape, which also shares a unibody construction. It did just fine with a WDH (Equal-i-zer) until we hit that ice in Wyoming. By necessity, we now have a Nissan Frontier (with full frame). Part of what you would need to be concerned with is the tongue weight. If you decide to do some of the mods you can find on this site, the 300 lb tongue weight can rapidly increase to over 450. Check what Toyota says about the Highlander's tongue weight. The general rule is 10-15% of the trailer's weight should be on the tongue. A 3000 lb trailer should have about a 300 lb tongue weight minimum to reduce the possibility of sway. If Toyota specifies a tongue weight limit that is less than the actual tongue weight, you might be looking at the potential for damage. Otherwise, you should be okay with the R-Pod. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: JET
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 12:55pm
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I am wondering if there is any reason why I can't drive the Highlander towing the Rpod and see how it does without the WDH torsion bars/chains attached. Maybe someone can answer these 2 questions for me. 1) Is there any reason why using the setup without the WDH bars and chains attached would be a problem? That is use the WDH ball mount only (it is quite a bit larger and different, has angle adjustments etc)/ 2) I also have the Husky friction sway bar. Is there any reason why I couldn't use the friction sway bar only? (sway bar only, but not the torsion bar/chain part of it). So in essence the two above questions are basically asking if I want to try towing the Rpod utilizing the Husky WDH ball mount, leaving the WDH bar/chains off, but attach the friction sway bar, would that cause any problems? |
Posted By: voisj
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 1:23pm
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Jet, I haven't read up on it but I would think that WDH and sway bar would help up to a point and then all bets are off.
WDH and sway bar will "ease the whip" on the TV Which could help the unibody deal with the stress. (just a guess). The highlander has a base weight of 4400lbs. The 5000 lb tow rating is minus any and all you put into it including gas. Then the trailer and all its gear, and then think about tongue weight, (plus the stuff you put in the back of the tow vehicle) ,which destabilizes the handling of the vehicle, (front being floaty). I think you need it in a vehicle of this size just in case. Remember the pod weighs in at 3/4 of your TV. If the tow rating was 6000lbs it may be a different story, I don't tow with either. Or maybe if nothing is in the back of the TV and tongue weight is as low as possible. I've seen Highlanders towing a pod with the rear end sagging so low it looks like the front jack will drag on any bump. this is a recipe for disaster. At 5000 lb towing capacity You would benefit in the, going down hill on a curve, fully loaded, moron in front does something stupid, (or you do something stupid), you make an evasive maneuver category. The 2600lb dry weight plus all your gear, supplies, (Joshua tree has no water available, or dump station), People, dogs, food, gas, Gets up there real fast. My 180 weighs 2853lb dry and comes in at just over 3500lb fully loaded. Love Joshua Tree!!! rgds John ------------- http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9426&title=slopod-180-mods-johnsue - SLOPODMODS John&Sue,SLO,CA 2016 180 HRE, 2013 F150 Eco Boost 
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Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 1:44pm
1. We had to do that when my son-in-law and I retrieved our 179 from the tow yard in Wyoming and towed it to South Jordan, Utah. We did this because I did not have the tools with me to adjust the WDH to suit the Frontier. The Escape has a 3500 lb tow rating and the Frontier has a 6100 lb tow rating. Even with the higher tow rating, I noticed the back end of the Frontier sagging and a couple of people flashed high beams at me even though I had ours on low beam. You might be better off with just using a plain hitch with just the ball in a case like this. You would save the weight of the WDH. 2. You could use a regular hitch with the sway bar. It would be better than towing with no sway control. 3. Hard to say whether using the WDH head without the bars would cause problems. I don't think it is a recommended way to tow and now that I have the hitch adjusted, I won't do it again. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: JET
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 7:15pm
Thanks Stephen for the comments. Today as a experiment I took the Highlander and RPod out and towed the Pod about 10 miles without the WDH or the sway bar attached just to see how it did. I got up to 70, but drove 65 and all felt fine. I could tell that the front end was a little higher, but it didn't feel that bad. I then pulled into a empty parking lot and measured the distance between the front and rear wheel well opening height to the pavement with and without the RPod attached. My unscientific measurements show that with the Rpod attached...the rear dropped 1 1/2 inch and the front raised 1/2 inch from where they are without the pod. |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 7:38pm
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As an alternative to a sway bar, you could consider the Hayes Sway-Master. (see my post here: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9283&PID=87535&title=hayes-swaymaster#87535 - http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9283&PID=87535&title=hayes-swaymaster#87535 ). It is more expensive than a friction sway bar, but would likely also be more effective. I would not tow without some form of sway control. In my case, I am adding the Hayes Sway-Master to towing with the Equal-i-zer.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: Steve 911
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 10:15pm
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I have a 2016 Highlander, and my owners manual speaks to using a WDH. It says to "measure the front fender height before the connection, and adjust the WDH so the front fender Returns to the same height as before the connection". It goes on to say "if gross trailer weight is over 2000 lbs. a sway control device with sufficient capacity is required ". I gather from this info that the addition of a WDH should not harm the vehicle. I know it's not the same year Highlander as yours but perhaps this might help ... Steve ------------- Firefighter Steve (retired) 2017.5 Rpod 179 (Reepod) 2016 Highlander AWD w/tow pkg. E2 wdh, prodigy RF brake controller. |
Posted By: JET
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 11:41pm
Thanks Steve. |
Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2017 at 12:44pm
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I set up our WDH that way on our 2016 FWD Highlander and we've had no issues. IMO, unibody concerns aside, it's more important to follow that wheel well height advice with a FWD vehicle than a RWD vehicle. The front drive train is designed for a certain about of suspension "sink" and exceeding that could cause too much pressure on the CV joints.
I think you're safe with a WDH on a unibody if you're not exceeding the tow ratings AND you don't oversize the WDH. A 1000/10000 WDH will have a lot less flex than a 600/6000, which means a lot more stress on the body panels. |
Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2017 at 1:01pm
It depends on how stiff the suspension is. Our Highlander has very car-like suspension, which means it sags quite a bit under load. We started out without a WDH, but after posting my first pics, I was advised by several people that we needed one. It certainly has made the ride better. |
Posted By: JET
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2017 at 1:26pm
Thanks so much for your reply. This whole question has had me rather apprehensive about whether to tow without the WHD, which I am convinced is a help and valid in that respect, or use the WHD and hope that the unibody frame issue is really a non-issue. I have talked to various people in the RV world and no one has ever experienced a problem with WHD's and unibody frames. Also, with all the talk of this issue on the Internet there is nowhere where I found a single person state that they actually had a problem with their unibody frame and a WHD, so I think it is all hypothetical worry that has no real basis for concern and the downside to towing without using a WHD when needed is outweighed by using the WHD and worrying about the frame.
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Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2017 at 1:41pm
I know of a couple unibody vehicles that had catastrophic issues with towing. BUT.. many people do it and WAY more have no issues, as the ones who have any issues. I have personally seen a Jetta, yes, VW Jetta, pulling a 23 foot Airstream. Confidently. Would I do it? NO. But the owners had nearly 10k miles on the rig with no complaints other then 20mph over the Rockies. ------------- |
Posted By: Leo B
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2017 at 2:41pm
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Wow! Don't think I would try that either!
------------- Leo & Melissa Bachand 2017 Ford F150 2021 Vista Cruiser 19 csk Previously owned 2015 Rpod 179 2010 Rpod 171 |