running appliances and battery charging
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Category: R-pod Discussion Forums
Forum Name: Podmods, Maintenance, Tips and Tricks
Forum Discription: Ask maintenance questions, share your podmods (modifications) and helpful tips
URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6628
Printed Date: 16 May 2024 at 11:32am
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Topic: running appliances and battery charging
Posted By: Nanc
Subject: running appliances and battery charging
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2015 at 12:03am
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help I am confused
so I have loaded my fridge with food on the way to a park- I set it on battery use during the drive? is the Rpod battery recharged by vehicle as it goes? when at state park with no electrical, if it runs on battery , the fridge drains battery in 4 hours i think- so I need a generator for even 1 night? would a 1800/2000 wat generator do it or does all the running need to be over 2000 watts can I get one quiet enough, light enough strong enough for under $800 if fridge is run on propane is that better when in a park? lasts longer? unit will be stored down the street at a storage unit- will I need a battery charger on it at all times? would that affect the batteries ability to hold a charge later or is the charger put on just prior to a trip ------------- Namaste |
Replies:
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2015 at 7:46am
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The battery should never be used to power the fridge unless you know YOUR tow vehicle is sending a proper charge to it. The fridge takes a day or so to properly cool down. This can be mitigated some by loading everything frozen or chilled into it to start. When not hooked up to shore power, run the fridge on propane. The fridge will run for 6-8 weeks on a full bottle. Battery health is one of the hardest things for new campers to get a solid hold on. Your fridge needs 12v to run in ANY mode. So if you run your battery flat, it's to late to switch to propane. Letting the battery die does effect it's health dramatically. Add a battery cutoff switch for when it's going to sit for more than a few days unhooked. Pull the battery and charge at home if it's going to be months between uses. ------------- |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2015 at 9:04am
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I agree completely with Furpod on batteries and fridge. And, at the risk of repeating myself and many others, I'll add: IMO the only time to run the fridge on 12V is when you're connected to the TV, the engine is running, and then only for short periods of time. If you're traveling run the fridge on propane. If you stop at Wally World leave in running on propane. If you want to shut down at a gas station just turn it off. No problem for the 10 minute pit stop. The reason for this is simple. Most TVs are not wired to supply sufficient charge current to the TT. It varies by model, but a good guess is 10-15 Amps. The fridge on 12V draws 11 Amps so you've got between -1 and +4 available for the battery. On the low side you're actually discharging your battery while driving. On the high side you're only putting 4 Amps into the battery. No problem if the battery is already charged, but that would take ten days to recharge a typical battery from 50% discharge. No problem if your battery is fully charged before you start and you're going to a campsite with electrical hookup. But if you start with less than a full charge and/or you do not have electricity at the campsite you'll end up with a dead battery just when you need it. This is particularly a problem between campsites where you depend on the driving time to partially recharge your battery. Ain't gonna happen with the fridge on 12V. The last point is on safety of towing with propane on. All current propane bottles have flow limiters built into the valves. In case of a broken gas line the gas flow will either shut of completely or be reduced to pilot light levels. These limiters are so good that they can even be triggered by opening the valves too fast after refilling. Consider that larger fridges used in bigger RVs don't even have a 12V option. They travel on propane with no issues and no concerns. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: Nanc
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2015 at 10:16am
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thanks y'all
the info is very helpful when is a generator helpful? necessary? week long trips? where do you store gas can? what about a fridge fan? ------------- Namaste |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2015 at 11:04am
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Generators are only required if you need AC or Microwave and have no electric hookup. If you can live without these two conveniences you never really need a generator. You can recharge your battery from your TV, preferably with good heavy jumper cables. Your TV will typically burn 1/2 gallon per hour at idle. Lots easier/safer/quieter/cheaper/more conveniennt than a generator and no gas can needed. If you plan on much off grid camping you should definitely upgrade to two 6 volt GC2 golf cart batteries. Depending on usage these can last days to a week. The big draw will be the furnace if you need it. The fridge will benefit from some air circulation. I use one of the little blue cube fans and the batteries have lasted more than a month so far. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: GLBCamper
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2015 at 11:50am
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How should the jumper connections go for charging? TT + to +, - to - with TV + to +, - to ground? ------------- Old: 2014 177 HRE 2015 Tacoma V6 4x4 Double Cab New: 2016 EVO ATS 200rd 2016 F150 4x4 Sport |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2015 at 12:41pm
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The best connection is TV battery positive terminal to TT battery positive terminal and TV engine block to TT battery negative terminal. If you can't conveniently get to the TV engine block a perfectly acceptable alternate is the TV battery negative terminal. In connecting the jumpers it is best to connect the two positive clamps first, then connect the two negative clamps in either order. Of course the TV engine should be running.
------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: GLBCamper
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2015 at 1:43pm
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Thanks. That's the configuration I was trying to relay. ------------- Old: 2014 177 HRE 2015 Tacoma V6 4x4 Double Cab New: 2016 EVO ATS 200rd 2016 F150 4x4 Sport |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2015 at 1:46pm
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BTW, the connection sequence I recommended is based on thin probabilities of you dropping a cable and hitting some metal of the opposite polarity. No big deal if you violate it. Sky will not fall, Earth will not stand still, etc.
------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2015 at 9:35pm
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Charging batteries with you tow vehicle is as restricted as generator use, for what that's worth. From the Great Smoky Mountains campground rules: Quiet Hours and Generators Quiet hours are in effect from 10 pm to 6 am. Generator use is prohibited from 8 pm to 8 am. Generator use and battery charging by engine idling is prohibited in generator free areas. TT ------------- 2010 176 FJ Cruiser |
Posted By: Leo B
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2015 at 9:45pm
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Good to know! ------------- Leo & Melissa Bachand 2017 Ford F150 2021 Vista Cruiser 19 csk Previously owned 2015 Rpod 179 2010 Rpod 171 |
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2015 at 10:23pm
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And be sure to charge the battery overnight every 30 days year-round (and before a trip) if you cant leave it on a battery tender or the pod plugged in all the time. Then disconnect the battery from the pod ------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual 
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Posted By: Chuck
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 7:02am
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When charging from TV directly to battery, how long should I allow the vehicle to idle to get a full charge. We're headed out to Glacier for 10 days tomorrow and with 2 CPAPS we use every bit of both batteries and no electrical hook up. ------------- Z-pod Chuck Janet & Bogie the dog '12 RP 177 1972 Shasta 1400 2005 Ford F-150 5.3L V8 |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 7:50am
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If you're talking about direct connection with a set of heavy duty #4 copper jumper cables the answer is it depends on you TV. http://www.sears.com/diehard-platinum-20ft-450a-4-gauge-booster-cable/p-02871304000P?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3 - http://www.sears.com/diehard-platinum-20ft-450a-4-gauge-booster-cable/p-02871304000P?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3 TVs' electrical electrical systems vary as to charging voltage and this varies the charging rate. Pretty much a trial and error situation. Try and hour at idle and measure the open circuit at rest voltage of the battery. Adjust up or down depending on results. If you're talking about charging through the 7 pin Bargman connector, the answer is probably never. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 7:59am
It depends... Would be best to get yourself a voltmeter and monitor your batteries. My CPAP 12v cigarette plug adapter outputs 12 volt @ 2.5 amps. I carry 230 Amp Hours worth of battery fully charged. With no other drain on the batteries, I could run my CPAP for 92 hours. But, there is never "no other drain on the batteries". So, I monitor battery voltage closely. As to charging your batteries with your TV, assuming you are using heavy duty jumper cables (not Bargman connector), charge time will depend on your vehicle alternator output and SOC (state of charge) of your pod batteries. I've included a SOC table which may help. Remember to measure battery voltage at "resting" state. It's a little tough while camping, but I just make sure everything is turned off and let it sit for an hour or so before checking voltage. Hope that helps. fred  ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 8:00am
Charlie beat me to it!!  fred ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: Chuck
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 9:41am
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Thanks guys. I am using #4 copper jumpers so I guess I'll just have to do a trial & error. ------------- Z-pod Chuck Janet & Bogie the dog '12 RP 177 1972 Shasta 1400 2005 Ford F-150 5.3L V8 |
Posted By: WillThrill
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 12:33pm
------------- "Not all those who wander are lost." Tolkien 2014 Hood River 177 2005 GMC Envoy XL |
Posted By: WillThrill
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 12:33pm
I've used the jumper cable trick before to get out of a jam with a rented RV. Apparently, the battery on the RV was already badly sulfated and would not hold much of a charge: running the refrigerator's electronic circuit board only (the unit was being cooled with propane) completely discharged the battery in less than 24 hours. At any rate, you must be careful of sparks with the jumper cables, and you must be sure to start the TV immediately after connecting the cables to the Pod's battery. Otherwise, you may drain your TV's battery and be unable to start it. FYI, most vehicles' alternators output 20-50 amps while idling. Considering that most TVs are bigger than average, you're probably looking at at least 30 amps of output. It would take about 3 hours to completely recharge a dead marine battery at that rate. Keep in mind also that this is not 3 stage smart charging, which is best for battery life: it's a raw current dump. But in a pinch, it will work. You should ALWAYS have a set of jumper cables with you anyway. :) ------------- "Not all those who wander are lost." Tolkien 2014 Hood River 177 2005 GMC Envoy XL |
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 8:56pm
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The rule of thumb is 30-60 minutes every other day (not every day). Due to the way lead acid batteries accept a charge you'll get more total charge for the time and gas spent doing it that way. The goal isn't to charge it fully, only up to a max of 80%. Above that the battery accepts less and less charge so it is best to top off from an outlet - which should occur every 7 days since it isn't being fully charged every day. That will help prevent sulphation. As long as you generally keep it between 50% and 80%, with an occasional dip to 30% you are fine (assuming that full top-off every 7 days). If you are going to do this more than a few days here and there, maybe for a week once a year, then you need to add a proper charging source. Solar, if you camp where there isn't any shade, or an inverter-generator.
------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual
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Posted By: kp57george
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2015 at 4:25pm
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I have the RPOD 177. I only need electricity for the water pump and a few LED lights--no TV, NO AC and the frig will be on propane. I will only be in non electric campsites for 3 day periods. The golf cart batteries from Amazon, ANSTON 6v are $195 each at Amazon. That is almost $400 plus the box for another $100. I could go solar for less than that and for a few bucks more go for Zamp. I am thinking I will start off by sticking with my 12 v. that came with the unit and see how long that lasts by judiciously shutting the pump off when not needed and using a few battery lanterns at times. I just don't understand how anyone has felt that the two golf cart battery is better. This is my first year with the RPOD and I need all the help the old pros have. Thanks. George ------------- kp57george |
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2015 at 5:24pm
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Welcome. With just LEDs, the water pump, and fridge (the control board uses some energy even in LP mode), the original battery should last you 3 days. ------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual
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Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2015 at 5:36pm
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George, A few extra points: six volt GC2 batteries are available from Sam's Club for $85 each. The amazon price is way too high. Battery boxes are purely cosmetic. The batteries don't need protection from the elements. Good Trojan GP24 batteries are 85AH. Most less expensive GP24s supplied with trailers are 70 or less. A good pair of GC2s are 230AH. Do the math. Even with solar you will want plenty of battery capacity in case of rain or shade. The water pump does not draw any current unless it's pumping. No need to turn it off, unless you have a leak. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: kp57george
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2015 at 6:02pm
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Thanks very much I will try that on the next trip. George ------------- kp57george |
Posted By: sunflashx
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2015 at 9:00pm
Is there a 12v -> 12v charger that would work better than straight jumper cables? Is there any reason you couldn't dual purpose a slightly over sized pwm solar charge controller that could be fed from panels or jumper cables? That way the batteries received a quality charge either way. Sunny days get panels, shady days get the cables. ------------- 2013 R-Pod 177 Hood River 2006 Acura MDX Tow Vehicle |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2015 at 12:31am
The PWM solar charger doesn't buy you anything when charging from the TV. The PWM controller is really an off/on switch that temporarily and periodically connects the charging source to you battery. When charging from a 12V source you need a full time heavy duty connection. PWM and MPPT controllers only work if the charging source is higher voltage than the battery being charged. You could use a 12V to 14V boost inverter. Such a thing exists, but it's not common. The jumper cable thing works if you use good heavy duty copper cables. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |