Shock-Drowning Potential
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Category: R-pod Discussion Forums
Forum Name: Miscellaneous / Off-topic
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4808
Printed Date: 17 May 2025 at 11:42am
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Topic: Shock-Drowning Potential
Posted By: jmsokol
Subject: Shock-Drowning Potential
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2014 at 4:43pm
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Are you guys aware of the potential of being shocked or electrocuted
from a swimming pool if there's mis-wiring with the lights or pump?
Instead of an RV hot-skin condition, an electrical failure in fresh
water creates a voltage gradient reaching out dozens of feet that will begin to paralyze your arms and legs the
closer you get to the voltage source. Many victims of electric shock in
water aren't actually electrocuted. Instead, they simply can't swim and
slip beneath the surface and drown. The autopsy will show that they
drowned, not electrocuted. This sort of shock-drowning event has also occurred with fisherman who plugged in their trolling battery charger while standing in shallow water. NEVER touch any appliance plugged into a power outlet while standing in water. That's just asking to be killed. And don't jump into the water for a rescue if you see someone being shocked. Instead, get the power turned off ASAP and then begin rescue. If not, you could be an additional shock-drowning victim. See below for the latest pool shock incident. Mike Sokol ===================================== Children get shocked as they swim in Florida pool filled with electricityA malfunctioning pump at the Palms West Gardens Condominium complex in Hialeah filled the complex's pool with electric currents. The youngsters became stunned and had to be removed by adults. They were treated at local hospitals and released.Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/kids-shocked-electrified-fla-swimming-pool-article-1.1802068#ixzz33himAZDs - http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/kids-shocked-electrified-fla-swimming-pool-article-1.1802068#ixzz33himAZDs ------------- mike@noshockzone.org www.noshockzone.org |
Replies:
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2014 at 8:53pm
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Probably more on-topic in the Misc section, I'll move it there. ------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual 
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Posted By: shroomer
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2014 at 11:39pm
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Here's an electrical safety question for y'all. I pump water from rain barrels on my pickup into a large tank at my garden. To do this, I use a submersible sump pump, 120volts, 250 watts. I get the volts from a 1000w inverter that I hook up to my battery via jumper cables. Seems like I have all the ingredients for a good shock if things go awry. What sort of protection should I use? A GFCI on the extension cord enough? ------------- Larry and Debbie w/Rosie the mutt. Old: '13 177, '06 Silverado V6 New: '15 Whitehawk 20MRB '14 Silverado V8 |
Posted By: Budward
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 1:40am
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I'd probably just use a 12V bilge marine bilge pump to remove worries about shocks and the need for the inverter. ------------- 2014 179 Towed by a 2015 Ford Transit Diesel Supervised by a German/Aussie mix and a Labradoodle! |
Posted By: shroomer
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 5:57am
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I tried a cheap 12v pump but it didn't move the water (100 gal or more at a time) very fast. I had the sump pump sitting around. Thought the inverter might come in useful someday as well. A good 12v might be the answer, but I'm not ready to give up the sump just yet. If it isn't safe then that's another story. ------------- Larry and Debbie w/Rosie the mutt. Old: '13 177, '06 Silverado V6 New: '15 Whitehawk 20MRB '14 Silverado V8 |
Posted By: jmsokol
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 7:02am
Actually, what you're doing is relatively safe but adding a GFCI would make it even safer. Here's why... Since your entire system is floating, even if you touch a bare "hot" wire of your system while standing in water there won't be any current flow and thus no danger. However, if there's a failure in the water pump while it's "grounded" in water, then your vehicle "ground" would be elevated to 120-volts creating a hot-skin condition. So touching your now-electrified vehicle while standing on earth could electrocute you. Yikes... However, by adding a GFCI extension cord feeding your 120-volt pump, if there's an insulation failure in your pump and your vehicle is hot-skin electrified, then touching it would cause sufficient current to flow allowing the GFCI to trip. I would consider that scenario to be perfectly safe and pretty easy to do since you can get an extension cord with built-in GFCI for $30 or so. Seems upside down and crazy, but that's how it works. This is one of the demonstrations I would like to do in my No~Shock~Zone seminars ------------- mike@noshockzone.org www.noshockzone.org |
Posted By: shroomer
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 7:52am
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Thank you. I appreciate the response and explanation. I'll try not to test it out those scenarios though. ------------- Larry and Debbie w/Rosie the mutt. Old: '13 177, '06 Silverado V6 New: '15 Whitehawk 20MRB '14 Silverado V8 |
Posted By: jmsokol
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 12:58pm
Yeah, you really don't want to use yourself as the test subject. Here's a picture of "Flash" who is an action figure (not a doll) I built with a flash bulb for a head. Yes, you can still buy flashbulbs for $1 on eBay and they go off with a big "whoosh". I use Flash in my No~Shock~Zone seminars to demonstrate what happens when you get across a voltage and ground source at the same time. He's OK with it since I can always pop in a new flashbulb. But you may not be so lucky if you get sufficient current across your heart. If you ever feel ANY shock from an appliance or RV, no matter how small, stop immediately and power down. And read all my electrical safety articles at http://www.NoShockZone.org - www.NoShockZone.org for a better understanding of electricity and how it works.  ------------- mike@noshockzone.org www.noshockzone.org |
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 1:52pm
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I'm not so sure there would be a problem here. Effectively this system is the same as a house circuit fed by an isolation transformer. Leakage from the hot leg to the water won't have a path back to the inverter if he's touching the water while standing on the ground. This would be a problem if the power source is a standard (non-isolated) house circuit. I agree adding a GFCI would make everything safer overall and many smaller inverters now come with them built-in. A note on the inverter itself, it is likely a modified sine wave inverter so it will not have a bond between neutral and ground. True sine waver inverters no matter how small usually have the N-G bond. Unlike smaller generators you must NEVER create a N-G bond with a MSW inverter or you'll "let the smoke out" of the inverter. This isn't a problem if you use one with a camper since they do not have an internal N-G bond (some people on this forum use MSW inverters with their pods) This is a problem if you try to hook it up to your home since it does have a N-G bond. ------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual
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Posted By: jmsokol
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 2:14pm
Maybe, but maybe not. Even though a modified sine wave inverter may not be N-G bonded, that doesn't mean there's complete isolation from the neutral. However, I would have to run some actual leakage tests to be sure. I'm not sure why there's a neutral bonding difference between sine and modified sine inverters, but it's got to be money related. I'll call one of my inverter engineering buddies and see just why. ------------- mike@noshockzone.org www.noshockzone.org |
Posted By: techntrek
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 4:55pm
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Sorry, I meant the two things to be separate. N-G bond or not, an inverter or generator that is completely isolated from the physical ground (no ground rod) wouldn't allow a circuit to be completed between the hot and a person standing on the ground. I'm sure you are right since MSW's are built as cheaply as possible. ------------- Doug ~ '10 171 (2009-2015) ~ 2008 Salem ~ http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1723 - Pod instruction manual
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Posted By: jmsokol
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 5:14pm
But you've raised a very interesting question that I don't know the answer to. I have the contact info for a few engineers at Xantrex, so maybe they can enlighten me. ------------- mike@noshockzone.org www.noshockzone.org |