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AT Tires R Pod 171

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Forum Name: Podmods, Maintenance, Tips and Tricks
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15391
Printed Date: 21 May 2024 at 7:48pm
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Topic: AT Tires R Pod 171
Posted By: ampete
Subject: AT Tires R Pod 171
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2022 at 1:21pm
Any recommendations for tire brand/model for 2014 R Pod 171, Hood River Edition?

LT 235 75 R15 All Terrain currently on the camper, we like to boondock sometimes, using forest service or BLM dirt roads to access sites; no gnarly roads though--thanks!





Replies:
Posted By: gpokluda
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2022 at 5:29pm
I just went through the whole, tire replacement drama this spring. Finally settled on Falken Wildpeak AT3 LT tires. They are 10ply and with 65psi, they have greater load capacity than the Westlakes at 50psi, that were stock on our 2017 179 HR Edition. So far so good with about 6K miles on them. I've checked running temps at various times this summer and they have never been above 122 F. 

Good luck.



-------------
Gpokluda
2017 Rpod 179(sold 2023)
2022 Escape 5.0TA
2022 Ford F150 4X4 3.5EB
Triumph T120


Posted By: campman
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2022 at 8:37pm
An excellent choice, upgrading your tires. If I may add a few things that you can do to take care of your tires to get the most life out of them.

Balance them, just like your vehicle tires. Consider a TPMS system to live monitor your tire pressures and temperatures. We use a WASP TPMS system that I have enough sensors that screw onto the valves on our 2 192 tires as well as our F150's 4 tires.

Every am when travelling I go around,tap all 6 sensors and get my cold tire pressures.

You would need to set the temps and pressure alarms according to your particular needs, but once done it is easy.

Rhey can also help indicate if you have a hot brake or hot bearings as the heat can transfer to the tires and be indicated while you are driving.

Good luck,

Andy

-------------
Andy and Laurie
'16 F150 5.0 4X4 w/factory tow pkg
'21 RP192
"If the women don't find you handsome...at least let them find you handy!"
Red-Green


Posted By: ampete
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2022 at 10:05am
Gpokluda,

Thanks for the specifics.  I'll take a look at those



Posted By: ampete
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2022 at 10:06am
Campman,

Am I correct to think the cold PSI is what I should go by to add air or not, once in the morning before driving?

Do you max out your tire PSI when pulling the camper loaded with water, etc?

Thanks



Posted By: ampete
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2022 at 10:08am


Posted By: campman
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2022 at 11:53am
I agree with gpokluda and how they increased the pressure with the heavier load tires, but not excessively.

Your original tires needed to be at max pressure to support the trailer all up weight. With the new 10 ply tires I run at about 70 psi, not the 85 (I think) psi it is rated for.

Pressure should only be checked and adjusted when the tires are cold, I prefer early in the am when sun isn't shining on them...it makes a difference.

If you get a TPMS, you probably will be amazed at how warm they get when you are travelling on a hot day. This is normal, from the rolling resistance, braking hard etc. The pressure in them rises as well and that is normal. Just do your adjustments when they are cold except in an emergency...and then correct once they cool down.

I don't max out the tire pressures (as stated on the side of every tire) as I am not running at the new tires max weight,and no need to have too much air, as that can give a jarring/harsh ride to the trailer.

Hope this helps, ask away if needed!

Andy



-------------
Andy and Laurie
'16 F150 5.0 4X4 w/factory tow pkg
'21 RP192
"If the women don't find you handsome...at least let them find you handy!"
Red-Green


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2022 at 3:35pm
If you're running ST tires it is better to run them at rated pressure as intended. That's because they have thick, stiff sidewalls to reduce rolling resistance. Running them at lower pressure creates more sidewall flex which can overheat the tires.

If you find that your ST tires are too stiff at rated pressure than you probably have overrated tires for the application. Tire engineers generally recommend selecting tires rated for around 20-25% higher than 1/2 the axle rating (or actual axle load if that's significantly less). Much below that and you risk tire failure. Much above and you'll be shaking the trailer and contents too much.

-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2022 at 4:35pm
I don't get it.  It seems like more trailer manufactures are using LT (light truck) tires on trailers that are of an all terrain design instead of ST (trailer tires) on their new trailers.  They sure look gnarly, but it appears more like a marketing strategy than something to truly enhance performance.  Ideally, a trailer tire should offer low rolling resistance with a relatively non-aggressive tread, and stiff sidewall construction to help stabilize the tendency of a trailer to fishtail or sway.  LT tires have flexible sidewalls, though somewhat stiffer than a passenger (P) tire to enhance cornering and directional control and the aggressive tread pattern helps the drive wheels with traction in soft dirt, snow, or mud.  Since a trailer tire only follows the TV, that sort of traction doesn't seem offer a benefit.  

Would someone please explain the advantage of using LT all-terrain tires on a trailer as opposed to an ST specifically made for trailers?


-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: poston
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2022 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by lostagain

Would someone please explain the advantage of using LT all-terrain tires on a trailer as opposed to an ST specifically made for trailers?

One could be the ability to run less-than-max inflation but still carry design weight.  LT sidewalls can handle more flex.  

Could ease the pounding on the trailer a bit.
 


-------------

--
Jim
Virginia City, Nevada
2016 R-pod 180
2015 Nissan Xterra Pro-4X


Posted By: Linda&Gino
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2022 at 9:18pm
Lost Again, the biggest advantage for me switching to LT tires was availability and choices in the particular size the Pod uses. Here in Albuquerque, there are two large tire shops that service most of the RV dealerships and all of them recommended going the LT route rather than ST. Airstream has been using highway tread LT tires on their trailer for several years now. Forest River now uses LT tires on the Wolf Pup series.

One thing both shops refused to do was to put a high pressure valve stem on the Pod wheels. LT tires can go to 80psi, however Rpod wheels are not rated for that high pressure. Your usual rubber valve stem is only rated at 65psi and that is what they installed when I had the tires mounted and balanced. I would be cautious about putting anything above 65psi in LT tires on Rpod rims.




-------------
gpokluda
2017 Rpod R179 SOLD!
2022 Escape 5.0 TA
2022 Ford F150 4X4 EB3.5
Triumph T120 Bonneville


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2022 at 6:02am
LA, I agree with you. I think the aggressive tread pattern is essentially for marketing purposes. If you like the looks of the LT tread then fine, just know they will reduce your fuel economy slightly.

Linda&Gino, you raise a good point re the Rpod wheels. Wheels have load ratings too, just like tires. It turned out the original 14 inch wheels on my 2015 179 were only rated for 1750 lbs, like the tires. When I upgraded I bought pre mounted 15 inch tires and wheels with IIRC around a 2400 lb rating. My 179 was loaded pretty heavy so I had no rough ride issues.

I bought the wheels and tires online and mounted them myself, no big deal. What I saved on mounting costs and selling the existing tires and wheels on CL paid for the upgraded wheels. Few folks want to buy used tires because it's not really worth mounting them but mounted on wheels there seemed to be a ready market.



-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2022 at 9:00pm
Nearly 2 years ago I purchased my third set of tires for a 177.  First time going to a "D" rated tire and it has made a big difference on tracking in high wind conditions.  Purchased Carlisle Radial HD ST 205/75/14 - a great tire IMHO.


-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2022 at 5:56am
We run the same brand and weight rating tire as Jato, replacing Westlake junk (also D weight range).  We've had them for a couple years and they're performing very well.  The trailer tracks well in cross-winds and on wet pavement, the pressure (unlike the Westlakes) is maintained while traveling, and the tread wear is even and minimal.  

Flexible sidewalls worry me for a trailer because, as I understand it, they can amplify trailer sway, not to mention increase rolling resistance from tread squirm.  Certainly the flexibility, as Jim Poston points out, can soften the ride, but that seems to be a two edge sword that can be easily solved by selecting the appropriate weight range.  We went from nice squishy load range C to D on our 172 and the improvement in stability and mileage was markedly better.  Nevertheless, those AT tires sure look cool.


-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: gpokluda
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2022 at 10:38am
We were traveling over the coastal mountains from Eureka to Red Bluff in early May and ran into some heavy, slushy snow. I have AT tires on my 2WD tow vehicle and was sure glad to in that situation. The Rpod, with the Wild peak AT3 tires pulled nicely behind with no sway or sliding on the twisty road.  I am by no means a tire expert, but I can't help but think that if I had highway tread the Rpod, I would have experienced much more sway and sliding in those conditions.

Ditto on the Westlakes not holding tire pressure. They would routinely lose 5psi over a month or so. 


-------------
Gpokluda
2017 Rpod 179(sold 2023)
2022 Escape 5.0TA
2022 Ford F150 4X4 3.5EB
Triumph T120


Posted By: seafans
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2023 at 10:50am
New type of axle!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgRdX8G4A84
A Curt Suspension, little over kill but might solve problems and issues, or cause more?


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2023 at 6:35pm
Based on that ad, I'd  say  more problems for sure. I just imagine all the owners trying to drive like that themselves and finding all the gear in  their cabinets  on the floor when they get to their campsites.



-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Linda&Gino
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2023 at 7:06pm
Similar in concept to the axle and suspension on Black Series trailers. Now you have swing arm bearings, shocks, probably some preload settings. No thanks.

-------------
gpokluda
2017 Rpod R179 SOLD!
2022 Escape 5.0 TA
2022 Ford F150 4X4 EB3.5
Triumph T120 Bonneville


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2023 at 7:48pm
OTOH, it would be tough enough to take that trip to Alaska with the rough roads I have read about. I'd be leery of that front window on the NoBo though.

-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2023 at 6:52am
+1 to OG.  Not only will their stuff be all over the trailer floor, but encouraging that kind of driving in delicate ecosystems will cause irreparable damage to the fragile forest and desert lands.  The ruts, holes, and erosion on the dirt roads will only get worse and the places we wish to visit for peace and quiet and connecting with nature will be badly damaged.  And who will end up paying for the remediation?  We will, either in higher camping fees or areas closed off due to damage.  

-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2023 at 7:41am
guess im confused by recent above comments regarding the axle/suspension?  whats wrong with it if thats what someone wants?  many are looking for something as such to access areas not allowed by an rpod.  and more realistically, i really dont think one would drive quite like that on roads/trails like that anyway.  i take it as a commercial with a little bit of exageration.  i think that dude may have eaten one to many gummies. just my thoughts.  jon

-------------
Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2023 at 4:35pm
I was just making a joke about the gear getting thrown all over the trailer. Hopefully most actual RV owners know better that to do that.

I think the suspension itself could be fine, if it actually worked. But like 90 plus percent of Americans say when surveyed, I never believe anything I see in ads unless I can independently confirm it.

But then there's that gullible few percent who believe everything they see and expect to be able to do that too. Thats why you usually see those "professional driver on closed course, don't try this a home" type disclaimers. Which this ad didn't have.

And those idiots are the same ones who will tear up the parks like LA is worried about. And the ones who will sue when they do something incredibly stupid that the advertiser never imagined they needed to warn them not to do. Like, Mickey D's having to warn ppl that hot coffee is, um, hot....



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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2023 at 6:01pm
I defended lots of cases in which people vied for Darwin awards.  Crashing a trailer claiming the ad led them to do it would be a law suit that would be lots of fun to defend, not to mention making a lot of money.  ...almost enough to tempt me to come out of retirement.  Big smile  Kind of like defending the Superman costume makers for failure to print a warning on the cape that you really can't fly while wearing it.  

-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2023 at 6:42pm
hold on here...........i did the superman thing!!!!Wacko.....no further comment!!  jon

-------------
Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2023 at 7:41pm
Yikes! jon, did you file a law suit and win???  Must have been in MO.  Wink

-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2023 at 8:17pm
nope, no lawsuit here; just pulled up my big boy pants and got a batman suit instead; much safer.  jon

-------------
Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 3:53am
Some companies start out being run by engineering, some by manufacturing, and some by sales. You can generally tell which is which.

If it's engineering then they will have the coolest gadgets with lots of obscure features. The product will probably work well if you know what your doing but it won't be cheap. And you'll have a hard time figuring out what all the features are because they won't do a great job advertising them.

If it's manufacturing then there will only be a few options if any, the product will always be kinda behind the curve, but quality will be good and it will be cost competitive in it's market.

If it's sales then the product will never stay the same for long, it will have all the latest features, but either the quality won't be the best or it will be expensive, or both. You'll for sure know what the features are though because they will all be named and hyped up in ads.

Guess which type of company FR is? That suspension ad is a perfect example. Beast mode? And we all know about rpod "quality", right?

One of those ways tends to be how companies become successful. But then eventually they get big and want to hang onto all those hard earned dollars.

At that point they might get taken over by the accountants or the lawyers. Those are the folks who come to the planning meetings and say "no" to the engineering, manufacturing, and/or sales folks.

If that happens the company will stop making the cool gadgets, the best value products, or the latest new thing, whichever one made it successful in the first place. Instead it will focus on making as many beans as possible on each widget or on avoiding lawsuits, or both. At that point the end is usually near...

And please before any lawyers or accountants here take offense, I'm not saying they're not needed, just that they shouldn't run the place.

So actually I'm kinda glad to see that silly ad, shows that at FR sales still runs the show and the lawyers and accountants haven't taken over yet...

Not that I'd ever buy an another FR product though. I've gone for stodgy quality this time round with my old Chinook. Man that thing is built like the proverbial brick outhouse. Just trying to cut a hole in it to put in a window a/c is taking hours and a sawsall. In my rpod I coulda done it in a couple of minutes with some tin snips.



-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 5:53am
In my experience lawyers are a lot like the guys with the brooms and shovels who follow the circus parade, except they get the blame for the mess they're hired to clean up.  They usually don't make the decisions that make the problem, but when the problem happens and they have to clean up the mess someone else makes, they get the blame because they're visible and in the middle of the fight.  In most companies, their job is to warn of dangers, but it's up to others to make the decisions whether to take the advice.  I'm sure it wasn't up to the lawyers to decide the cost benefit analysis of the engineering failure of the explosive Ford Pinto, for example.  ...It was probably accountants.  

Product development is like making sausage.  If you examined it in detail it would make you feel really queasy.  Everyone makes mistakes, passes the buck, and tries to claim credit for what others did. ... then they hire lawyers to clean up the legal messes they got themselves into.  ...And there are plenty of lawyers who make the messes even worse.  A world run by engineers, manufacturing process people, sales people, accountants and lawyers, would be pretty ugly place.  Come to think of it.............


-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 8:03am
No argument that lawyers and accountants (both of whom are there to clean up messes or to keep them from occurring) often get blamed for others mistakes.

But here's the thing. Unless the business is a law or accounting firm the value it adds for the customer isn't created by the lawyers or accountants, so they shouldn't have to much decision making power.

In a company that makes stuff the value is created by the engineers who design the stuff, the manufacturing people who make it, and/or the sales and marketing folks who figure out what the customers need and how to explain it to them.

The role of the lawyers and accountants is to not squander that value by avoiding stupid mistakes. That's all good and very necessary.

What I've seen happen though, is that after a company gets older, larger, and more profitable those "value preservation" folks tend to often become too powerful and as a result the company can lose sight of what made it great to begin with.

-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 8:29am
Nor did the engineers who came up with the explosive Ford Pinto design add much value to Ford or its customers who bought one.

Engineers are not infallible and are not gawds any more than are lawyers, bean counters, sales people or the folks who clean the factory floor.  Everyone should, but sadly doesn't, try to add value through his or her work.  But no one, in the grand scheme of things, is really any better or worse than anyone else.  Value is an utterly subjective concept that can be interpreted anyway you like.  We all like to believe we add it in our work, but none of us is truly objective about the worth of what we do. 




-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 9:13am
Who ever said engineers, or anyone else, is infallible?

Didn't I just point out that you can usually tell an engineering dominated company because the products will tend to be complex and relatively expensive with lots of obscure features. Not particularly good things.

Nor did I say that lawyers and accountants don't add value. Quite the opposite.

What I said was that lawyers and accountants arent where the core value resides in a company that builds products. They aren't what makes that company great. They are there to preserve value created by others. So absolutely they have value to add but they shouldnt run the place, any more than an engineer or manufacturing manager should run a law firm. If that's not obvious I don't know what else to say.

The very best manufacturing companies understand that their core value is in design, manufacturing, or customer service, and are excellent there, but are also very very good at the other two. And they also have proper checks and balances on the legal and finance sides. And importantly the corporate leaders demonstrate due respect for all the above.

Sadly, FR seems to be almost entirely sales dominated, with seemingly little thought left over for design excellence, quality, reliability, or, based on some of their claims, perhaps for legal considerations either. Not sure where they are on the accounting and finance end of things, but I'll bet they're pretty good there or ol' Warren wouldn't have invested.

-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: hogone
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 9:33am
dam, i crashed the batcycle Embarrassed(again no lawsuitStern Smile).  now onto a real superhero......El Kabong.  jon

-------------
Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 11:33am
Dang, jon, you gotta read those warning labels.  Shocked

-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: hank*pod
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by lostagain

Nor did the engineers who came up with the explosive Ford Pinto design add much value to Ford or its customers who bought one.
Hey, don't anoint engineers with the Pinto issue. They designed the car under weight, cost and schedule constraints, and when initial testing showed a tendency toward immolation the fixes were developed, tested and priced but a famous cost-benefit analysis resulted in the Pinto going into production with the vulnerability intact.

https://philosophia.uncg.edu/phi361-matteson/module-1-why-does-business-need-ethics/case-the-ford-pinto/


Posted By: gpokluda
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 12:58pm
Ironically, a fully restored Pinto will command $8K to $15K these days. About 3-4 times of what they cost new.

-------------
Gpokluda
2017 Rpod 179(sold 2023)
2022 Escape 5.0TA
2022 Ford F150 4X4 3.5EB
Triumph T120


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 1:21pm
The Ralph Nader model of the Corvair commands a pretty good price too.  In good shape, north of $20K.

Were they designed by bean counters or lawyers looking for roll over cases to defend?  Ermm


-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: Linda&Gino
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 1:35pm
Some companies try to push design while some try to maximize profit and some try to do both. From my time in the motorcycle industry, mechanics loved to work on Hondas because they were easy. We hated to ride Hondas because it was like kissing your sister. The design by committee approach Honda used refined all of the character out of the bikes. On the other hand, mechanics did not like working on Yamahas because they were hard, but we loved riding them because they were exciting.

Not sure where I was going with that but there it is.


-------------
gpokluda
2017 Rpod R179 SOLD!
2022 Escape 5.0 TA
2022 Ford F150 4X4 EB3.5
Triumph T120 Bonneville


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 2:13pm
FWIW, I'd take a Corvair Corsa Turbo in a heartbeat. Great fun. But I wouldn't get in a Pinto unless my life depended on it. And even then I'd have to think about it.

-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 3:13pm
Come on now. Pintos did not spontaneously explode. I had one. I even had a rear-end collision of a sort. I stopped for a red light because the signal was changing and I hit the brakes instead of trying to get through the yellow light. A Volkswagen Beetle behind me did not stop quite so quickly. His bumper hit my tailpipe. It broke the muffler hanger and I could see where the exhaust pipe hit the brake line. I think it wasn't flattened because of the pressure it was under. He had a bent bumper to show for it. I took a piece of an old tire to make a replacement muffler hanger and drove it until the exhaust system needed replacing when the muffler rusted out.

My Pinto lasted better than a classmates Chevy Vega. That thing was covered in rust spots the first winter and the aluminum engine block needed to be bored out and iron sleeves put in to stop it form burning oil.

The Pinto replaced a 63 Corvair that I drove when I first got licensed. It was not turbo and it did have the swing axle. It wasn't until after it started dancing when I pulled back in my lane after passing a car that I read Unsafe At Any Speed. Then I understood why it had done that. I also found out that it was not very good on ice from freezing rain after making a couple of 360 degree turns and ending up in a snowbank. Other than that, the 2 speed automatic was really bad. I'm glad it had the automatic though as I got hurt and could drive with my left foot since it didn't have a driveshaft tunnel.


-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 3:37pm
StephenH, what year was your Pinto?  The recalled ones for the gas tank issue were made between 1971 and 1976 with the recall of 1.5M Pintos and 30K Bobcats taking place in 1978.  

Ah, yes the Chevy Vega, one of the worst cars ever made by GM.  Didn't they experiment with some kind silica coating on the walls of the cylinders that wore off when the pistons got distorted due to excessive heat from an inadequate cooling system?


-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 4:18pm
It was a 1971 Pinto. Yes, the silica coating on the cylinder walls was the issue. It was an idea to save weight of a cast iron block, but the technology was just not there for it to succeed.

The Pinto died in another accident on our honeymoon in 1975. We slid into an intersection on slick roads during a hurricane going up through PA. A tree was hanging down over the stop sign. By the time I saw the stop sign and hit the brakes, I could not stop and as we slid in, a flatbed semi shaved the front end of the Pinto off from the radiator on forward and bent the front from the windshield on forward. We did not get hurt, but we did count our blessings of not having arrived at that intersection a second earlier. If we had, I would not be typing this.


-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: gpokluda
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 4:34pm
I remember there was a Cosworth version of the Vega back then. They were supposed to be quite peppy. In the eighties, my dad bought a Pinto station wagon. He welded a roof rack on to it and used it for the handy man business he started after he retired. He had a perfectly good pickup, but didn't want to put miles on it.

-------------
Gpokluda
2017 Rpod 179(sold 2023)
2022 Escape 5.0TA
2022 Ford F150 4X4 3.5EB
Triumph T120


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 5:11pm
Indeed, StephenH, you and your wife were very fortunate.  Someone was watching out for you two.

-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 5:57pm
And let's not forget another sweet car, the AMC Gremlin.  After selling my '69 Corvette (had to so I could continue to pay my way through college debt free) I purchased a brand new 1974 Gremlin off the lot (3.8L V-6) for $ 2902 out the door, and that included taxes and license plate transfer.  Even got recognition at a church I went to near the campus of M.S.U. in East Lansing, MI for bringing the most people in one car - 10 of us!  Would most likely get a ticket for doing that today as the 3 in the back had their legs hanging out the rear window.

A scary car I remember being a passenger in during that same time was a friends Honda Civic.  Going down the expressway you could easily see the undercarriage of semi's as they whizzed by, the car sat that low.



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God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 7:21pm
Funny you mentioned the Civic. After the accident, we used a Ford Falcon that my Dad drove down for us. In 1977, we purchased a Honda Civic CVCC wagon. It was called a wagon because it had the squared off back of a wagon, not because it was a land yacht like the ones my parents had. It was a standard (like the Pinto was), and was fun to drive. I agree it sat rather low. Then again, so did the MGB I had the opportunity to drive once and it was a convertible at that. I think I could have driven under a semitrailer, but it is something I will leave for stunt men.

Another car we have had was a Geo Metro. It was interesting with the 3 cylinder engine. It also was fun to drive, but it would not have been a good one for long trips, even though it did get really good gas mileage.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: Linda&Gino
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 8:36pm
Stephen, did you get the mower deck option on the Metro? Just kidding. It was a fun car to drive. I had a MG Midget when I lived in California. We joked that you wore a Midget more than you drove it. Nonetheless, for as small as it was, it had a full set of gauges. Loved that little sponge, I mean car.

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gpokluda
2017 Rpod R179 SOLD!
2022 Escape 5.0 TA
2022 Ford F150 4X4 EB3.5
Triumph T120 Bonneville


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2023 at 8:59pm
I've always been a fan of smaller vehicles. While I have a pickup now, it is a mid-size Frontier. I have driven much larger vehicles, but always prefer the smaller ones. One of the biggest was the motor home my parents used to own. That thing was huge and got about 6 mpg. Any sort of cross-wind and it was really challenging to keep a straight track. 

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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 3:50am
Originally posted by StephenH

Come on now. Pintos did not spontaneously explode. I had one. I even had a rear-end collision of a sort. I stopped for a red light because the signal was changing and I hit the brakes instead of trying to get through the yellow light. A Volkswagen Beetle behind me did not stop quite so quickly. His bumper hit my tailpipe. It broke the muffler hanger and I could see where the exhaust pipe hit the brake line. I think it wasn't flattened because of the pressure it was under. He had a bent bumper to show for it. I took a piece of an old tire to make a replacement muffler hanger and drove it until the exhaust system needed replacing when the muffler rusted out.
My Pinto lasted better than a classmates Chevy Vega. That thing was covered in rust spots the first winter and the aluminum engine block needed to be bored out and iron sleeves put in to stop it form burning oil.
The Pinto replaced a 63 Corvair that I drove when I first got licensed. It was not turbo and it did have the swing axl.


StephenH, you misunderstand me, and rereading my post I understand why. My bad. I disliked the Pinto because it was just a terrible car to drive, not because of the gas tank. I'm not one to avoid so-called "dangerous" vehicles as long as I know what I'm getting into so I can manage my risk. Heck I fly an experimental aircraft.

But why get in any car if it's a POS? My GF back in the mid 70s had a Pinto and it was the most gutless piece of junk I ever got behind the wheel of. She had the base model. It had no power, no power steering, no power brakes even. It would literally wheeze going down the road, like an old man with asthma. And it was a new car. It also had a horrible automatic tranny. Might have only been 2 speeds, can't recall. But it was really really bad. Nothing was right on that car. It was an embarrassment to car-dom. I hated it. Told my GF I'd rather walk. Hey but they had "more road-hugging weight". Remember that silly ad slogan?

At that time I had a Civic. First brand new car I ever owned. Loved it. Jato, if you think Civics were low, get in an MG Midget sometime, if you can fit. Now that was strap a roller skate to your butt low.

As for unsafe at any speed, I'm still not sure why Nader singled out the Corvair. That car was just GMs rather poor attempt to copy the ultra popular VW Bug. The Veedub had the same swing axle design up to around 1968 when they finally adopted the Porsche IRS. I can assure you that the swing axle VWs had similar handling quirks as the Corvair. You could still throw them around in the twisties, you just had to know the limits or it would bite you real bad. Serious racers put things called camber compensators on them to limit wheel tuck under.    But Nader didn't target that car. I suspect he knew the VW was too popular to fail, while the Corvair was vulnerable. Nader sure knew how to pick his battles.






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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 6:07am
I had a 1965 VW that was a piece of junk.  The no. 3 exhaust valve kept burning and I ended up needing at least 4 valve jobs.  The oil cooler was right over the valve in the cooling housing and blocked the air from that area.  Another bad thing was that it needed a full tune up with plug, points and condenser every oil change.  And since it had no oil filter the oil need changing every 3K miles.  I did get proficient at engine removal and replacement though.

Later, around 1978, I got one of those Honda CVCC orange station wagons. ....another piece of junk.  The transmission wore out at about 40K miles.  My mechanic friend who tried to fix it said the casing was so worn out that it wouldn't even hold the internal parts in place.  I got a junkyard transmission and sold the car.

I've also had very bad luck with GMC products.  Oil consumption, parts breaking off, premature failures of basic systems, and consistently uncomfortable seats for my body shape.   




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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 7:06am
Yep, number 3 exhaust on VWs was notorious. Even worse in type 2s (busses) because they are run harder. The fix is to remove the OEM oil cooler and replace it with an external one that gets better cooling, and allows air to get to number 3.

Interesting but Lycoming O320 and O360 aircraft engines have the exact same issue on some aurframes, premature number 3 exhaust failure. I recently had to sort that out on my airplane, which as an 0360. Turns out the fix is even easier than on VWs, the cause is the cooling baffle setup can block airflow past the cylinder cooling fins in one spot on that cylinder. Creating a 1/8 inch gap with a spacer fixes it. It's often the little things. My number CHTs now run within 2 degrees of the other cylinders.

Was your Civic tranny manual or a slushbox? I had a 76 with the manual, never had a single issue with that car in the 150k miles I owned it.

My worst ownership experience was my 1984 Keep Cherokee. That's when AMC owned Jeep. AMC seemingly made a global search to fund the worst parts they could for it. Had Lucas hydraulics (Lucas!) and the infamous 2.8 liter GM V6. What a piece of junk that car was.

Everyone has different experiences. I found that if I actually liked driving the vehicle a lot then Id tolerate it's foibles but if I didn't it could do nothing right.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 7:49am
The Pinto I had was a manual transmission. I never had any problems with it and while it couldn't keep up with my brother's Mercury Cyclone, it was still world better than the Corvair's 2 speed transmission. I do know that VW had the same swing axle issue. As I said, I did not understand what had happened until I read Nader's book. I think that the extra weight of the 6 vs. 4 cylinder engine and the extra length behind the rear wheels in the Corvair made it even more vulnerable when compared with the Beetle. Both were better off when GM and VW eliminated the swing axle.

As for the Honda CVCC wagon, the transmission never gave me problems (manual). The clutch cable, OTOH was something else. I had to replace it (think super heavy duty bicycle brake cable). There were other problems such as a float in the carburetor that sank. The Honda dealer wanted to replace the carburetor. I found a mechanic who rebuilt it for a price I could afford. Later, the head gasket needed to be replaced and CV joints also. Still, I drove it for about 75,000 miles and then my brother drove it for many more. It was really a good little car.

Dodge Omni was my next one. We bought it from my Father in Law. and the Army shipped it to Germany for us. We drove it for about 5-1/2 years there and sold it to another Soldier when we came back. Then we had a Chevy Lumina APV. I liked the composite body that didn't dent when car doors hit it and didn't rust. I think I was on the third brake booster when we sold it. The driver's seat elevating mechanism also broke. That got shipped to Hawaii and was left there.

Then we got a Ford (out of) Focus. It must have been a Monday or Friday vehicle. We sold it when we had it into the shop for the seventh time for the airbag system. It would show the light that the passenger airbag was disabled when my wife was in the passenger seat. They replaced just about everything in that system but the airbag. It also needed a new transmission during the time we owned it.

Then was the 2009 Escape. It was okay but it convinced me that I don't like sun/moon roofs. It was otherwise okay, but we sold it and bought a 2016 Escape with the 2l Ecoboost engine when we got the RPod. I thought we were  going to be getting a Casita, but turned out I got scammed. All's well that ends well. I am sure we are happier with the RPod than we would have been with the much smaller Casita.

The accident with the icy road in Wyoming is why we now have the Frontier. I liked the Escape's Ecoboost, but the tiny gas tank meant a stop about every 100 miles to fill up with premium. The Frontier doesn't do so well at high altitude, but it does not need premium gas.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 7:55am
Even that sweet '69 Corvette that I had to sell to 'upgrade' to the Gremlin had its issues.  The one that really was a bugger was the location of the starter motor, this Vette had a 350 hi performance 350 HP.  If you turned the motor off while on a hot summer day, you would literally have to wait 20 minutes or more to start it again.  Unfortunately the starter was located about 1 - 1.5" away from the exhaust manifold and with that amount of heat, the starter would be too hot to turn over until cooling off.  Fortunately my smarter and older brother came up with a solution, being a tool and die master he made and installed a heat deflector between the manifold and starter - it made a world of difference!  He should have gotten a patent on it and a lot of Vette owners would have been much happier. 

Also with all that weight in the front IF you were attempting to back out of a 1" snow covered driveway with the slightest of incline, you would find yourself stuck, the rear tires would spin but the car would not move in the least.  I would throw a couple of sandbags in the back behind the seat to help but now there would be absolutely no room to carry anything, except in the passenger seat. 

One thing that was really sweet was the light monitoring system that was on the console, by utilizing fiber optics you could, from the seat, observe all your lights, park, headlights, hi-beam as well as tail lights and even the license plate light, pretty cool.


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God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 11:14am
Originally posted by lostagain

Ah, yes the Chevy Vega, one of the worst cars ever made by GM.  Didn't they experiment with some kind silica coating on the walls of the cylinders that wore off when the pistons got distorted due to excessive heat from an inadequate cooling system?

I bought one of the first Chevy Vegas off the line, but we got the "GT" model that had the extra-large radiator. The cylinder walls were some kind of silica-embedded aluminum to avoid having pressed-in liners. Turns out that a large part of the original problem was that the "stock" radiator was about the size of a Sears catalogue, and that one of the primary failure issues was the engine running too hot and compromising the silica cylinder walls. We drove that Vega for 6 years without trouble and sold it with 90+ thousand miles.


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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 11:17am
Originally posted by lostagain

The Ralph Nader model of the Corvair commands a pretty good price too.  In good shape, north of $20K.

Were they designed by bean counters or lawyers looking for roll over cases to defend?  Ermm

IIRC, GM fixed the original issue with the Corvair suspension in later models, but by the time they did that, the damage to its reputation was irreparable. There may have been a similar situation with the Pinto, but I don't remember.


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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 11:20am
The biggest issue with the Gremlin (for me at least) was that it was just about the ugliest thing I've ever seen on four wheels with the possible exception of the VW Thing.

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 1:54pm
Hey now, I agree about the Gremlin but the Thing is beautiful in it's utilitarian way, just like a Jeep CJ is. And still looking quite close to the WW2 military Kubelwagen it was derived from, you can paint it gray, get a Wehrmacht Oberstleutnant uniform, and become a WW2 reenactor.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold



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