AC Thermostat Bypass - Short Cycle
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Topic: AC Thermostat Bypass - Short Cycle
Posted By: fwunder
Subject: AC Thermostat Bypass - Short Cycle
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 7:51pm
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Can't seem to find any good answer on this... I am trying to trouble shoot another AC short cycling issue. I had the problem, replaced thermostat and it went away. Yesterday, ran AC all day no issue. Today AC just short cycles - usual fan comes on, compressor kicks in, cool air blow for a few seconds, compressor shuts down, fan shuts down, unit rests for a minute or two and cycle repeats. Weird problem cuz it has happened before, but only intermittently. I thought replacing thermostat might fix it. Loose wire in control box? Replace control box? I do have EasyStart but the problem happened before and after EasyStart. It is not cold air blowing on thermostat. It is not a source voltage problem. So I am thinking maybe another thermostat gone bad? Can I bypass it and force fan/compressor on? Not sure what wires to jump.  ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Replies:
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 6:09am
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If you let the interior get warm and then set the thermostat as cold as possible does it still short cycle? If so the you might suspect the compressor or Easystart. If not then it's probably the stat.
If it's the stat then you might want to get one with an adjustable temp differential aka hysteresis. Not sure how to wire it in your specific case but the lite W1209 thermostat boards are very versatile and operate on 12v. So all they need are 4 wires, two for 12v power and 2 that provide a contact closure to run the a/c. Fully configurable for heating, cooling, hysteresis, setpoint, and time delay. You can load the the temp sensor remotely and very inexpensive too. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 6:28am
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Got me thinking there OG. Yesterday, it was 97 interior. Skin temp was prolly 120+. Short cycled from get go. I just turned it on this AM w/74 interior and thermostat set @ 55. Meat locker time. After 5 minutes I'm measuring 43.5 @ AC duct. The day before when it worked great, It wasn't quite as hot as yesterday. I'm seeing a pattern here. Seems like maybe @ certain high temp it's not working. That's not good. I had noticed a similar behavior prior to EasyStart ( I think ) so what's going on? f ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 6:41am
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I'll just keep it on auto today w/stat set to 74. Should be 90 or so here by noon, so we will see. f ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 7:48am
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Got a good tip from Micro-Air. Has built in diagnostics: http://www.micro-air.com/kb-easystart/articles_troubleshooting/easystart_364_LED_Indicator_Lights_Clear_Cover_Model.cfm - http://www.micro-air.com/kb-easystart/articles_troubleshooting/easystart_364_LED_Indicator_Lights_Clear_Cover_Model.cfm Will check this afternoon when it warms up. f ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 10:34am
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MA makes an EasyStart with Bluetooth now so you can check it with your phone. I plan to get that one to add to my 196 whenever it arrives. ------------- Alan 2022 R-Pod 196 "RaptoRPod" 2022 Ram 1500 Lone Star 4x4 Three cats |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 2:54pm
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My email to Micro-Air. I know this is not their problem, but it sure is damn frustrating! ====================================== @ 8:00 AM I set the stat to 72 and auto fan. The ambient temp was 74 as well as trailer inside. For four hours the unit worked flawlessly, maintaining 72+- inside. @ 12 noon ambient was 92, roof temp => 128, AC shroud temp => 155 Inside was a comfortable 72+- I shut down the system for 2 hours. @ 2:00PM ambient was 95, roof temp => 128, AC shroud temp => 160 Inside temp was a hot 100 Started system, stat set to 72 and auto fan. The unit shortly begin cooling and seemed to be working normally. After ten minutes or so and inside temp @ 85 I pushed the thermostat up as far is it would go - 90. After a minute or so the unit shut down. I did not wait 3 minutes. After maybe a minute, I lowered the thermostat to 72. The fan kicked in, the compressor did not. The EasyStart showed lights D22 D23 glowing ( Power Interruption ). I guess that is normal? I shut the system down for 5 minutes or so and the started up again with stat set to 72 and auto fan. It has been cooling since. So, all in all, it seems everything is working exactly as it should? So why did it short cycle and not work yesterday? I did let it rest between attempts. What other tests can I do? If it is a loose wire, where to look? I guess I have to wait until it happens again and see if the EasyStart shows any other error? The only other observation is that I removed the inside air distribution cover just to check for obstructions. Sure seems to blow a lot more air than when it is on. Anyway, if you have any suggestions I would greatly appreciate them. Intermittent problems are a bitch!! ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 4:01pm
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OMG. 10 minutes after I posted that, it started short cycling again!! Total cycle 4:39 seconds. After it shuts itself down, fan comes on @ 1:30. Compressor comes on @ 3:00. Compressor shuts off @ 4:00. Fan shuts off @ 4:39. Man, this is driving me nuts!! I'm thinking it must be control box. What else could it be? ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 6:41pm
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Hmmm. Don't know specifically what to suggest as I haven't seen a similar problem.
I'm assuming you're in mains power. Is your line voltage good? It could be a compressor thermal overload brought on by hot conditions and/or low line voltage. What did the Easystart indicate when you got the short cycle. Have you run the advanced Easystart troubleshooting procedure? ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 7:18pm
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'Bout time to talk with the HVAC guys up the road. Yeah, OG, the EasyStart does just what it is supposed to. When it does short cycle, it keeps compressor from starting up for three minutes after startup. Then, compressor just shuts down after 30 seconds or a minute. No error. Cycle repeats. It's like a total freeze up, I think, although I see no ice with shroud off. Haven't dismantled condenser coil cover. Voltage while running ( line ) measured 126v. Same symptom with line or generator. It's been 4 hours shutdown and I just tried it again. Short cycling. If it starts up normal in the morning...should I try to adjust it with a 12 gauge slug? Damn ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 7:26pm
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For those that might be wondering why I'm making such a big deal about AC. It's not for me and it's not for DW. We can deal with it. We got some trips coming up where we will have to leave Theo, the camping cat, in the rpod while we attend some functions. Don't want to cook her or worse, get her mad at me while we're gone ( self preservation )!! I did order a https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0872ZWV8X/ - WiFi (internet) temp remote so I could get an alert if pod starts cooking. f ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 6:24am
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Good idea to take a look at the EVAP coil just to eliminate it's freezing up as a possibility, but I doubt it if it's hot in the trailer.
If the voltage is good but the compressor is cutting out and it's not the stat or the Easystart then it's possible it's the compressor thermal overload switch, especially since its happening more when it's really hot. Do a search for the Dometic manual, there is a schematic toward the end that shows where the switch is connected. You should be able to test it with a voltmeter with someone inside turning on the a/c. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 7:37am
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Good tip OG. I located it on diagram. I wonder how long the switch would remain open since it seems to short cycle over just a few minutes. Of course, it's working fine this AM. I'm going to just let it go all day. Supposed to be another hot one. I finally figured out that I can see evaporator coils from below with air distribution cover off. Also checked that thermistor is where it supposed to be. ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 8:54am
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Probably the switch will close again pretty quickly as it cools, it's just a little poppet sensor. If it's open when you get the short cycle then either it's bad or it's doing its job and your compressor is overheating. If it's bad then it's a cheap fix but if the compressor is overheating and the condenser coils are clean then you have $$$ issues. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 1:09pm
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Micro-Air still thinks it is a line voltage problem somewhere. Just happens to be heat related. No more testing today cuz big storms rolling through. Gave us a nice 20 degree temp drop! Until then, AC was work fine all day. The EasyStart is supposed to catch compressor overload - D21 led on. Very frustrating problem. ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 4:09pm
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Electrical Demons!! So storms passed, sun came out and started warming up again. About 4:00 PM I noticed on remote the interior humidity and temp rising. Humidity rising fast. Ruh Rho! Damn. Yep, it was short cycling. OK, so this time, just for grins I pulled out the 25 foot shore power cord I keep in the locker. I have a home set and a camping set so I don't have to keep packing and unpacking (poor man's pedestal). Anyway, I hook it up and plug into different garage circuit. You guessed it! When I tuned on AC, it got cold fast and has been working as expected for last hour. Wow, if that has been the problem it's really a big time gotcha! If it keeps working, I really want to figure out if it is cord, cord end(s), wall plug, etc. BTW, this little Govee WiFi temp/hygrometer is really handy. I see the inside temp is now 72.1 and humidity is 49 and dropping. f ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 4:10pm
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Ya know, I just thought...maybe it's the rPod shore power inlet? Could be changed cords wiggled something. Hmmm. Lot's to check out. ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2021 at 10:48am
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I thought you'd already checked the line voltage earlier? Where did you check it and was the a/c on when you did it? There can be a significant resistive drop between the home panel and the a/c so you need to measure at the a/c itself while it's running.
I don't know of anything other than low line voltage to the a/c compressor that would cause it to overheat that a bad cord or connector could cause without also tripping a breaker. I've overheated a connectorsll before running the a/c from a 15A circuit without tripping a breaker. The a/c takes so close to the breaker trip point that it's kinda a race between what will overheat first. That's why it's so much better to put in a 30A dedicated circuit for the trailer. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2021 at 11:55am
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I did check line voltage earlier and it checked fine at the time - 118v @ RV plug onto garage. The only thing I changed was shore power cord and outlet and it came back on ( no short cycle ). Soooooooo This AM I go out and fire it up. Ambient around 72. Set tstat @ 65. Short cycled from get go!! About 15 seconds of compressor time ( cooling ), shutdown and repeat. Today, with voltmeter @ pod 20 amp breaker (during short cycle) - 118 rest. 114 when fan kicks on. 110 when compressor kicks in. Compressor runs for 15 secs and then shuts down. I went on to different projects, came back and put old tstat back on. Checked continuity of three tstat wires back to control box. Also double checked all connections from EasyStart wiring before starting up again. Turned it on auto with temp set @ 68 - of course it's working perfectly again!! So it wasn't shore power cord or voltage. It's not heat (ambient) related. I do need to check voltage @ compressor next. I think I'm going to contact some local HVAC guys tomorrow and see if I can talk them into climbing a ladder to check it out. Hopefully, it will short cycle while they are here!! f ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2021 at 11:52am
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Just to followup before HVAC tech arrives. I contacted local HVAC company. They reluctantly agreed to send a tech with no guarantee. I explained I just need someone to look at it and give me an opinion. Anyway, short cycled on start this morning. One last check, I removed evaporator covering to inspect and check junction box wiring. All looks good. Of course, when I put it all back together AC is working great. LOL. Seems all I got to do is take something apart and put it back together, it works...for a little while.   ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2021 at 12:36pm
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Just find the easiest part to take off and have the necessary tool handy. Then as soon as it starts acting up take the part off and put it right back. Problem solved! ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: campman
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2021 at 9:20am
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Hello fwunder, thanks for documenting all the work you have been doing on this a/c cycling issue. I know I can't be the only one watching this thread (and pulling for you that you can isolate and solve the issue).
When you said you were talking to the easystart people I really perked up as I just installed my easystart yesterday and trained it as per instructions...just in case there was something up with the magic little box. I was wondering if you have a EPO hooked up in your electrical system and if that would help with your diagnosing/preventing the cycling when your heavier power load comes on? OG might have provided a temporary work around...Can't hurt in a pinch! ;-) Good luck with finding this obnoxious electrical gremlin. Andy ------------- Andy and Laurie '16 F150 5.0 4X4 w/factory tow pkg '21 RP192 "If the women don't find you handsome...at least let them find you handy!" Red-Green |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2021 at 10:43am
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HVAC tech just left. Crawled all over taking measurements. Of course, the unit was running perfectly while he was here. Wiring all "looks" good. He measured compressor drawing 10 amps. He thought that might be a little hi. I think that's about spec. His suggestions: Replace run capacitor Replace overload switch Double check all connections...again. He was not familiar with EasyStart, but as I said, I had issue before EasyStart. Down a bit of a rabbit hole, but I don't mind replacing a few cheap parts if it fixes it. The advice cost me $122.00 ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2021 at 10:57am
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I think the 10A is a little lowif anything. If that was the compressor only (not including the fan then you would be about 13A total for the a/c. IIRC my a/c took about 15A.
I agree with your tech on replacing those couple items. They're cheap and easy. Too bad it didn't fail while he was there to see it. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2021 at 4:39pm
Thanks Andy. I hope this thread might offer some clues to anyone else who might have a similar problem. I have scoured many forums and come across more than one long thread of AC short cycle issues. I think I have the first one that is so crazy intermittent with same and stable power supply. I don't have a EPO or surge protector on it here @ home. Since the problem has (intermittently) happened on campground pedestal, sister's house on 20 amp circuit, my house on 20 amp circuit and generator, I'm not sure EPO would tell me much. It would be interesting if I could monitor and capture 24 hours or more of power data like I can with my new Govee Wifi thermometer. You can see that after about 1:30 when tech was gone and I put everything back together, the AC has been working well with ambient about 90.  ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2021 at 4:45pm
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Ooooh, this would work! https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/electrical-testing/digital-multimeters/fluke-289 - https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/electrical-testing/digital-multimeters/fluke-289 A new AC probably would too!  ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2021 at 7:26pm
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This will probably work too and doesn't cost as much as an a/c. Still not exactly cheap though.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003CRKDPA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_WX7BBVWFD18S4SE5TK38 - DAQ ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2021 at 6:14pm
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Just to followup... I can't make the problem happen again!! Somewhere along this journey someone pushed or jiggled the right wire or unplugged and plugged the right connection. It's not a solution, but whattaya gonna do?! I'm having a tough time finding the 40/15 run capacitor or the overload relay - out of stock everywhere. I understand I might be able to use an alternate run capacitor if it came to it. In the meantime, I'm going to keep trying to break it so I can fix it!! fred ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2021 at 10:15am
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Maybe it's fixed! Often just taking things apart, fiddling with them and putting them back corrects problems. Dont look a gift horse in the mouth as they used to say. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2021 at 4:13pm
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When we left you last... The AC tech had left, the unit was working perfectly and I was drinking heavily. So beginning Wednesday evening I left the AC on auto w/tstat @ 72. Thursday, I changed tstat to 74. It has been on auto continuously since Wednesday with, interestingly, the Progressive Dynamics converter also on. 20 amp home circuit. You will see from the attached image, the AC has been working perfecting, cutting in and out with a range one would expect with outside temps in mid to high 80's and pod in full sun. But wait...there's more.... I didn't think the following was that important, but now I am really wondering. Before AC tech arrived and because the unit was acting so freeking crazy and I was running out of ideas and strong enough liquor, I swapped the thermostat back to the old one. It was still short cycling so I decided to put the new one back on. This time, though, I swapped out the DC panel. "He did what, you ask?!!" A while back and about the first time I remember the AC problem, I replaced the WFCO converter with a Progressive Dynamics. The PD came with its own DC panel. Functionally, the only difference is a "charge wizard" button that pumps a manual fast charge. Not really necessary, but I figured I'd use the panel since I had it. What a PIA it was trying to fit the panel in the WFCO enclosure! I made it work, stuffing it in and it seemed to be working fine although access to the DC fuses was almost impossible without removing WFCO cover. Fast forward... When swapping tstats I wanted to pull DC 12v. fuse. On my unit it's #5 ( Bathroom lights ). Because of the hassle pulling and replacing fuse with PD panel and thinking future potential problems, I decided to put the old WFCO panel back in place. That was the only ( wiring ) change I have made to the system since this began. Is it possible a 12 volt problem could have been the source of all my problems ( please don't get personal! )? Could I have fixed it by fixing a 12 volt problem? Should I resume drinking heavily? As Walter Conkrite would say, "And that's the way it is." fred  ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: campman
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2021 at 4:48pm
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I could very well be, as it is the only change to the electrical system...I would think the voltage for the thermostat is 12 volt controlled and that could be where the issue was. Now only time will tell as you use/test your air-conditioning.
Just to make you feel like you are not alone, I have been chasing an electrical snag with our new 192. Just got home from a 4 day 900 mile 'round trip to Southern Ontario to visit my wife's parents...got home and couldn't get electrical power to the trailer. It was pouring rain last night so cut short the trouble shooting. Metered the 30 Amp cable...it was fine, EPO said my wall plug is good. So pulled the TT power input plug for shore power and found that during assembly the wires weren't properly secured inside the trailer plug and were arcing. Some melted plastic cleaned up, disassembly and proper re-assembly of the entire plug before hooking it back up did the trick so far. Fingers crossed all is good as we leave Tuesday for our 2nd trip, this one to Manitoba (2000 km, 1200 miles one way) to meet our first grandchild! Have a good one and I will be watching to see if your electrical problem is gone...or not. Andy ------------- Andy and Laurie '16 F150 5.0 4X4 w/factory tow pkg '21 RP192 "If the women don't find you handsome...at least let them find you handy!" Red-Green |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2021 at 7:49pm
Do you have some reason to think there actually was a 12v wiring problem with the PD panel? Did any other 12V circuits have issues? If not then it seems unlikely that was the origin of your a/c problem. I suggest that if you're really lucky you might never know....Don't worry, be happy...  ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2021 at 3:35pm
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It's fixed !! Power of positive prognostication !! Today inside temp was 98 when I set tstat to 74 this afternoon. It's currently 73.9 inside. Thanks to everyone who helped me find the problem and getter fixed !! don't jinx it fred ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |