r-pod 196 Wheel Camber
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Topic: r-pod 196 Wheel Camber
Posted By: Colonel Podder
Subject: r-pod 196 Wheel Camber
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2021 at 6:32pm
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Hello Everyone, I have a question regarding the camber on our camper. I am thinking this is normal, but wanted to ask here before taking it to the dealer. Today I noticed a good bit of negative camber on both wheels. The tire is leaning in on both sides. The camper is about 5 months old and has been on seven short to medium length trips so far. I have not noticed any abnormal tire wear. With the camper sitting level, and using a crude method with a level, there is about 5/8" of lean on both tires. I am putting the level off center in order to miss the tire bulge at the bottom. Is this of any concern? In addition, my Sister and B-I-L's r-pod 196 is sitting next to mine and I can see the same negative camber on their camper. Only difference is that the camber is slightly less than what mine has. They have three short trips on their camper. Thanks!  ------------- 2021 R-pod 196 |
Replies:
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2021 at 9:51pm
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I have a 10+ year old 177 and have the same thing on my slide side only. The other side is perfectly straight up and down. Being so excited about owning our first travel trailer (March 2011) this was something I never paid attention to until it was a year old. And having noted others with the same issue, I never worried about it. I guess the fact that after replacing my first set of tires (even though I only owned the 177 for 5 years but the tires were 7 years old) was that on the side where camber was the issue and having put over 22,000 miles on them, the wear was only slightly more worn on the inside of the tread. On our 2nd set, Hartland tires LRC, from Tire Factory, the same wear was noted after 5 years, nothing dramatic at all. Now having recently purchased our 3rd set, Carlisle's I would expect the same as I did with the previous two sets.
------------- God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2021 at 7:29am
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The mid sized rpods like my 179 are somewhat notorious for having bent axle tubes which result in significant negative camber. That is caused because the frame rails where the axle is attached are inboard so the axle is cantilevered for about a foot on each side between the frame and the wheels. The lighter pods are the same design but don't seem to get this problem because there isn't as much weight on the wheels. Several of us have reinforced our axles to prevent this issue.
If you're having a similar problem on your 196 that would be the first I've heard of it, you have a heavier axle and it's attached to the frame closer to the wheels. It's also possible that the axle torsion arms themselves are bent, rather than the axle tube, that has been reported here before at least once. My suggestion is to make a warranty claim since you have a new trailer. They will almost certainly say it's normal and don't worry about it, and they may well be right, but your claim will be on record if it gets worse. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Colonel Podder
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2021 at 7:03pm
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Thanks for the responses. My plan is to visit the dealer tomorrow. They have a new 196 and 192 on the lot, I want to see how they look compared to ours. This is my first camper, but I am not new to trailers and towing. In fact, I have a 5+ year old enclosed cargo hauler with torsion axles and the wheels are straight, no camber. Overall I have been very disappointed in the quality of our r-pod, but this new discovery is an extreme low for us. Thanks again. ------------- 2021 R-pod 196 |
Posted By: Xegavas
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2021 at 10:02pm
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We have a 2021.5 196 HRE and have noted quite alot of camber as well on both sides - when it goes into the shop this fall I plan to bring it up. (as well as get the front window replaced/resealed as it leaked rain water all over our heads on our second trip out). |
Posted By: Colonel Podder
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2021 at 2:35pm
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Sorry to hear about the leak. So far the only leak on ours was from the black tank flush, ran out on the floor when I hooked it up the first time. I visited the dealer today and looked at the new 196 on the lot. The camber looks much different than mine, there was none that I could tell just by looking at it. Mine is pretty extreme, the picture just doesn't capture it. Got an appointment in about three weeks to take it in. Hopefully there is a permanent fix for it.
------------- 2021 R-pod 196 |
Posted By: chasl
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2021 at 9:08pm
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we have a 2021.5 196, and so far our wheels are straight, but I'll keep an eye on them. we are going out for 2 weeks camping, our second outing. First outing everything was perfect, except lights would not come on. the dealer fixed it, a staple in wall had penetrated the wiring. He fixed in in less than a day. ------------- cl |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2021 at 5:28am
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There really shouldn't be any significant negative camber. Since you don't have a narrow body rpod it shouldn't be subject to the cantilever axle bending issue those have. That leaves the torsion arms themselves as the most likely suspect I think.
One thing you might want to do is weigh the trailer axle with the rpod loaded as you normally would and see how close you are to the axle rating, which I think is 4400 lbs on your trailer. That might help you when you make your warranty claim too, you can show that you're not overloading it. Unless something has changed warranty claims on the axle and frame are the responsibility of Lippert so your issue is likely to get evaluated by them. Good luck and please keep us informed about how it goes. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Xegavas
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2021 at 6:05am
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@Colonel Podder - I would love to hear back with the results from your dealer appointment @offgrid - I actually took mine across a scale on our first trip - came in a 3750 on the trailer axle. You are correct - the axle is rated for 4400 lbs.
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Posted By: Colonel Podder
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2021 at 7:58am
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Thanks! Will post back here once I know something. Weighed it on our first trip back in February, and will be heading to the NC mountains in a few days and will get it weighed again. February weights were 4240lbs for the total camper weight, and 3580lbs on the axle. But we have added some stuff since then! ------------- 2021 R-pod 196 |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2021 at 10:50am
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You should have plenty of remaining capacity in your axle ratings, so I'd suspect a manufacturing issue with Lippert. Some reported failed torsion arms on their 3500 lb axle awhile ago on the forum, which Lippert replaced under warranty. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: campman
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2021 at 9:13pm
I have just sat down as I have been working on our new RPOD 192 since we got it last Thursdsy the 8th. I wanted to comment on your leaking front window as we had the same problem. As soon as we pulled out the mattress to make the bed we saw the moisture and discoloration on the bed plywood platform. We contacted our dealer who had us bring it in for first thing Monday, when they resealed the front window, let it cure and water checked it before we left for home, which is about 1.5 hrs away. They said we did the right thing bringing it in and they have submitted the paperwork to have the window and the seal under it replaced. The factory didn't seal the window properly and they are taking care of it to make it right. My input is to stay in contact with your dealer, let them handle the claim process and help them by documenting all problems. We took lots of photo's, the dealer took photo's and I just got in from taking more and measuring the window etc to email them for the warranty claim. We are very happy with our trailer (our dealer especially!) and can't wait to head out next week on our first short shake down trip. Sorry for the off topic post, and have a nice evening. Andy ------------- Andy and Laurie '16 F150 5.0 4X4 w/factory tow pkg '21 RP192 "If the women don't find you handsome...at least let them find you handy!" Red-Green |
Posted By: Xegavas
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2021 at 9:06pm
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Not to derail the thread... but heh When we discovered the leak it was 2am on our last night of a 2 week trip. I had a tube of clear silicone with me so we did a lantern light silicone session as the rain let up a bit. It rained more later that night and no more water was coming in. First thing I did the following Monday was call our dealership - we will have warranty from Forest River until December and another 5 years extended beyond that. We had a chat with them - since my repair held up we (the dealership and myself/wife) decided to leave it until the fall to repair it properly as to not screw our entire camping season. I had them setup an appointment for October and send me an e-mail detailing our discussion and next steps. After looking at the window a little closer - it looks like one of the screws inside was installed wonky - causing the seal around the trim to separate on one side (both sides don't look the same).
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Posted By: Toyanvil
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2021 at 10:59pm
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Your wheel should be plumb with the side of the trailer and your dealer should repair it under warranty. It is easy to check with a 24" level.   |
Posted By: Colonel Podder
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 2:11pm
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Picked up the 196 from the dealer today. The purpose of this appointment was to determine the course of action to repair the negative camber in the wheels. The determination was made that the axle needs to be replaced. It will take 7-8 weeks for the new axle to arrive, and 4-6 weeks for the dealer to replace the axle. They did say it is safe to use, but I will have increased tire wear on the inside edge of the tires. After the axle arrives, I can schedule the replacement for when the camper is not planned to be used. I asked if the replacement axle would be a better unit, or the same as what I have now. They said it would most likely be the same axle, and that an issue like this very rare, so I should not have a reoccurrence. Will most likely schedule this during the winter months, December - January.
------------- 2021 R-pod 196 |
Posted By: Colonel Podder
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2021 at 12:34pm
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Update - Dealer called and said they they need the camper back for measurements. Not sure what was done the first time, but I was told they would get measurements and anything else they needed to send to the manufacturer on the first visit. I know this is not a huge deal, but I am very disappointed in the quality of our R-Pod. There have been several items what I have repaired myself, and now two major items that need to be repaired in five months or ownership. It is unimaginable how bad these campers are designed and constructed. Plus the fact that there appears to be zero pride in the manufacturing process. You would not believe the mess I have cleaned up while doing some of the small repairs. Seams to me that manufactures could improve profits, with fewer warranty repairs, by improving the design and manufacturing. They would have a happier customer base, that is also more loyal in addition. But maybe this is not what they want? Sorry for the rant. ------------- 2021 R-pod 196 |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2021 at 12:46pm
| I couldn't agree more. They have design failures that are inexcusable as well as quality control issues. I have seen assembly mistakes that just point to workers not caring about what they are doing. How long did it take them to reinforce the black/gray water hangers? I cannot believe the quality of the plywood used in construction. When they look at cost they figure it for their entire product line so cheap plywood saves considerable money but if you look at an individual trailer and the increase to use good wood is not much and they could use that fact in their advertising. I used to work in boats and people were willing to spend a bit more for quality. |
Posted By: Colonel Podder
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 7:42am
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The dealership has completed the axle replacement. While it does look better, it is not as I thought it would be. I still have a fair amount of negative camber on both wheels, but it is much better. I guess there is a certain amount of negative camber built in? Not sure why this would be though. Now I am waiting on parts for the next repair! ------------- 2021 R-pod 196 |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 8:29am
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Have you weighed it? The axle will bend up at the ends and down in the center as you put load on it. So the heavier your axle load the more negative camber you'll have. Be sure you are well within spec on your axle load.
Many of us have found that there is insufficient safety factor above the axle load limit in rpods and other inexpensive lightweight travel trailers. You need at least 2x safety factor for bump load, more is better. Some have installed axle reinforcement to address this problem, myself included. The simplest axle reinforcement is to place a 2x2x3/16 steel angle under the axle, extending to the ends of the axle tube on both sides. The angle needs to be crowned a little in the center, which can be done by getting a shop with a hydraulic press to apply pressure downward on the corner of the angle while holding the ends up. Around 3/8 inch crown should do it. Then get 4, 1/2 in dia square u bolts and clamp the angle to the axle at each end. Place the u bolts at 45 degrees to the vertical and 90 degrees from each other. If you use the advanced search and look back about 3-4 years you can find my thread and others on this topic. This was done on the 179 but it's looking like the 196 has similar issues. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Colonel Podder
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 9:57am
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Thanks for the tips, I may have to do some more work on it myself. I didn't think about the gear that is loaded making the tires have some camber. I have about 440 pounds of stuff in the trailer. ------------- 2021 R-pod 196 |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 3:59pm
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To be more clear, there is a safety
built into the axle rating. I don't know what it is for the 196, but when I did the math for the 179 a few years ago I came up with a safety factor of a bit less than 2x, so a 3500 lb rated 179 axle can handle around 7000 lbs before failing. That means that the axle could fail with about a 2 g bump load on it. That's not enough to handle bumps and potholes. Hence the common issue of bent axles on the 179's. Since you have a 196 YMMV but the general concept is the same. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |